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Out Of Square Exterior Walls

 
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:01 PM   #41
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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why?
do you not have a brick ledge ? you just share the foundation with your sill and bricks?
forget about the brick ledge, snap lines as there wasn't one, then just parallel the bricked walls off the other lines.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:01 PM   #42
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Set some temp grade poles.

you can figure square off of these pretty easy and quick with some practice.
i guess so, i heard it done that way but i when kyle told me that i thought it was like a really good idea so..
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:03 PM   #43
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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i guess so, i heard it done that way but i when kyle told me that i thought it was like a really good idea so..
Like i said.... Kyles way makes him money. Good for him. Really.

But I like square from the start.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:03 PM   #44
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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Originally Posted by FramingPro

why?
do you not have a brick ledge ? you just share the foundation with your sill and bricks?
8" foundation wall, bolts on inside, frame and brick share the 8".
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:04 PM   #45
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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you guys are scaring me. thanks
sooo back to out of square exterior walls.
yesterday i learned a good trick from kyle-dmr
he said if there is a brick ledge what you can do is put your sills to follow
the foundation. disregarding for sqaure
then when you build your floor snap the wall lines square and let the wall overhang the floor. it will just overhand into the brick airspace so..
but check the foundation to make sure its reasonable. if not then square sills roughly and do same thing square wall layout.
I've seen a few pretty hideous examples of this "theory" in actual practice. Wish I had pictures to back it up.

When I first got into this business I was a residential insulator (also responsable for putting the poly up on the ceilings), and some of the "stuff" I saw was unreal. To clarify?
I "roll out" and cut the vapour barrier (nominally) square, by riding the Olfa down the outside edge of the roll. When you tack the factory edge to a girder truss and pull center to the outside wall, then run your corners out, you will end up with a pretty good approximation of the truth of the framing.
Further clarification? This was in the very early 1990's when the "folks" in Ottawa changed the RRSP rules and stimulated a (minor) housing boom in Calgary.
Some of these "Saskatchewan" framers?

I wouldn't have hired these guys to build me a picnic table, let alone a $500K house. Yet there they were with their white and green licence plates, hacking, shimming, and passing their ineptitude down to the poor buggers who had to deal with the finishes.
I remember instances where I would get called for a house and 2 weeks later they were still trying to pass framing inspection...and the inspectors don't really care about truth either.
If you can't at the least make it structurally sound, then what are the chances that you can actually build it true?

Not too good.

I know good framers and I am (now) a pretty decent framer myself but I still shudder thinking about some of those "things". When your 3" poly "lap" is running up the plate joint an inch and a half over eight feet? You got problems. Laps in the corners of exterior walls would tell the rest of the story. A 2" fold that disappears by the time you get to the floor...? Uh huh. Crazy crap indeed.
For Canadians looking to "get into" residential construction? Insulating taught me tons about the art of building a house. Reason being? You see it "naked" with all its "stickers" in place. Framing, HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical, Hydronic, Low Voltage: it's all there to study, while you're getting paid to be there doing your thing. Win win win.

That whole "working with fiberglass" thing is not for everyone though. Some people can do it...others get the "itch" right away.

Blah, blah blah...
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:07 PM   #46
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


I told you young man to become a carpenter. If you do you will learn how to create square with a transit. Or maybe a total station.

But no two-bit framer I know has those tools. Let alone know how to use them.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:09 PM   #47
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Anyway-

Nick, I wouldn't let anyone do that on my crew. But I can't say it wouldn't work sometimes. Too much opportunity for f- ups in my oppinion. And like I said, I learned from a guy that allways said get back to "on" whenever you can. If you can pull from a square line- do it.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:12 PM   #48
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Nick,

As a framer, you start square and stay square period. If it makes the foundation guy look like a hack, that's tough for him.

I do my own framing, but I didn't I'd be checking you for square and level and making you correct it if it's out.

Has anyone taught you how to use batter boards for master layout strings? You set string lines at near perfect square outside your building using 3,4,5 and pull all measurement off them.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:13 PM   #49
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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Originally Posted by JustaFramer
I told you young man to become a carpenter. If you do you will learn how to create square with a transit. Or maybe a total station.

But no two-bit framer I know has those tools. Let alone know how to use them.
Those total stations are bad ass! Only got to use one on one job but they are legit! Gps controlled transit. Enter in your plan and walk around and it tells you where your building is on the lot. Also awesome for transferring squar lines to different elevations.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:16 PM   #50
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


...
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:19 PM   #51
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


I have never used one. I meant a theodolite. I know a few guys that are pretty skilled with the total station. A TS maybe overkill for your average house.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:19 PM   #52
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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Nick,

As a framer, you start square and stay square period. If it makes the foundation guy look like a hack, that's tough for him.

I do my own framing, but I didn't I'd be checking you for square and level and making you correct it if it's out.

Has anyone taught you how to use batter boards for master layout strings? You set string lines at near perfect square outside your building using 3,4,5 and pull all measurement off them.
That's cool if you want to pull off string lines. I snap a reference line inside the building (If I need to) and then it's allways there to pull of and doesn't move, wiggle all that shiz
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:19 PM   #53
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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we've used a way like this before, too.

I use a 5 beam laser,
On a step basement I snap my line on the upper part of the foundation,

Then I Use the laser to find square on each front corner.
I brace up a 2x6 at the back corners, then run my string from front to back on each side.


This way I don't actually have to measure the width from the steps at all.

Normally I use a mason string, not a chalk line, then level down from it.
(with the laser)

Last house was only 1/16" out of parallel over 40'

But I agree with the rest, what ever way you do it, start off square.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:21 PM   #54
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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I have never used one. I meant a theodolite. I know a few guys that are pretty skilled with the total station. A TS maybe overkill for your average house.
I was building a pretty good size hospital with it
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #55
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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Originally Posted by JustaFramer View Post
I told you young man to become a carpenter. If you do you will learn how to create square with a transit. Or maybe a total station.

But no two-bit framer I know has those tools. Let alone know how to use them.
I've got to admit that I never learned how to use a transit. I have a self-squaring laser and a plumb laser.

I guess I should put it on my list. An older, great framer, that worked for me until he got hurt used one all the time (he wouldn't use the lasers) and his work was always nuts on.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:28 PM   #56
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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That's cool if you want to pull off string lines. I snap a reference line inside the building (If I need to) and then it's allways there to pull of and doesn't move, wiggle all that shiz
I usually do the foundation, so I set my stakes outside the hole and they are there for the framing. Once my plates are set, I move to snapped lines on the deck also.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:30 PM   #57
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


http://www.newenglandlaser.com/Levels-and-Transits.html

They have a free download for transits.


a 1968 popular mechanics on how to square a foundation.

http://books.google.com/books?id=AtQ...0level&f=false

Transit packages aren't to expensive. A CST/Berger can be had for under 300 bucks.

I know in the days of lazers they are getting obsolete. But what do you do when the batteries die. Then again what do you do when the sun goes down.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:41 PM   #58
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Sometimes I hate this place sometimes. You guys made me look at transits and look what I stumbled across

http://www.toolbarn.com/cstberger-cst-205.html
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:42 PM   #59
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


I used a david white forever! I had a laser give me bad info once and said I wouldn't touch one again. I just forked out 1200 last year for a spectra its sweet, but there's things that are better about a site transit. Like you can watch your buddy move the pencil up and down in the scope, sometimes that's handy'r than beep, beep, beep
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:12 AM   #60
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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Originally Posted by hughjazz View Post
I use a 5 beam laser,
On a step basement I snap my line on the upper part of the foundation,

Then I Use the laser to find square on each front corner.
I brace up a 2x6 at the back corners, then run my string from to back on each side.


This way I don't actually have to measure the width from the steps at all.

Normally I use a mason string, not a chalk line, then level down from it.
(with the laser)

Last house was only 1/16" out of parallel over 40'

But I agree with the rest, what ever way you do it, start off square.
Hey man...I know you're down in Cowtown, I hope you're not from Saskatchewan...?

In all seriousness? Good framers were also around back then; I hired one to build my first house and he was the best of all of those I'd been following. Dave wasn't cheap but the house was a bit "complicated" and the roof at the front was almost all stick framed; he nailed it nuts on. For example, perfect drywall margins around the windows in all 3 of the 5 sided bays. Perfect layouts on the interior doors, joist layouts with consideration for mechanical needs...impeccable, to be quite honest. Made all the finish work a piece of cake. An important point? Dave spec'd the cribber that he wanted to follow and I hired on his recommendation.

And there was much rejoicing...(raaay!)

The inside work was a piece of cake,; so was the siding.The guys I hired to board (rock) it were amazed at how straight it all was. They actually told me that they felt guilty taking my money because it had been a pleasure to do a house where it wasn't "off a half at 48..." all day long.

Cheers, Ron

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