Out Of Square Exterior Walls - Framing - Contractor Talk

Out Of Square Exterior Walls

 
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:09 AM   #1
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Out Of Square Exterior Walls


A yeah the title says it all. Want to puke yet. How about it started on the first floor then build on and nobody QC'd till the roof was on, on the third floor. I don't know how framers like this stay in business. Sure the pick up guy sprinkles sugar on dog but man the proper way to fix that pile of steamming is to a major remodel. Not shimming here and there taking a nip out. Were talking 1/2" to a 1" out of plumb. Not only can this be seen but if a plum bob was used to check this ******************** it would make a true tradesman sick. Business is Business but no QC in the right stages is surely asking for trouble.

Personally if I had the money to buy one of these half million dollar condo's I would gut to the shell take picture's and sue for a free condo. Hell they couldn't even build the stairs to R 311.5.2.3. Yeah they also had to rip out 36 sets of stairs because bullnose to bullnose was not 10 inches.

Hey whatever you can only hide behind your INC. and insurance so long before nobody will hire you as a sub.


I know I am ranting but what do you guys think of such great quality?

Last edited by JustaFramer; 02-10-2006 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:17 AM   #2
 
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Every body knows their's good framers and bad framers. I have been hired to fix jobs people have left a total mess. I wont do it again, for one it's embarrassing to even be seen on a site like that and for two you can polish a turd and cover it up but there's still a turd there when you leave. "R.31.sh*t"

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Old 02-10-2006, 06:53 AM   #3
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


They stay in buisness because they move fast...the problems are slow in coming back to them.

My home, a ranch. ( 1 story) The outside bathroom walls are an inch off.
There where so many things bad, we ended up getting a lawyer and settling for 20,000
The guys who built this home are considered the best in the area.
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:48 AM   #4
 
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


What was the outfit i may have worked for them not for long though ,,...when i was framing i worked with 3 different crews and only 1 was worth a s the other 2 hacks made me feel like Idaho said about not wanting to even be seen there
on one guys job i had a 20year old "lead man" tell me he could eyeball a 50 foot back wall WITH HIS EYE >? dang he should be a sniper or some crap.
the other guy could never seem to finish one phase completly b4 going on to the next one ie finish sheathing b4 joists if you start the sheathing but they always want to give the apperance of completed work so you get a massive punch out list that could, should, would have been done if hacks would have allowed the time
you could go on for hours i think
im going to work we are in 3000 sq with all Poplar trim
have a good one
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Old 02-10-2006, 09:44 AM   #5
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Moore. I think your complaint is valid. We have the same issues down south here. Even when I framed in Idaho you would run into the same shotty work. The vast meaning of what the other guy said they move fast. Thats all it is is they move fast and stay in business. Most builder out there today dont want to hire quality they hire QUANTITY.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:27 PM   #6
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


This particular GC's scope of framing has wall with in a 1/8 of a inch. Almost unheard as a 1/4" is pushing it but with in tolerance. Now the framing sub is actually licensed a GC but he would never make it as a real GC. He has also been putting out shotty work for the 8 years I known him. Lets just say the housing tract builder's won't hire him any more. Now he's into condos. Little does he now many condo framers get sued for this crap and never return as a business. As Seattle lawyers are onto this stuff and buy new condos just to gut and sue.

Last edited by JustaFramer; 02-10-2006 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 02-15-2006, 05:21 PM   #7
 
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Its really tough to do a metal roof on an out - of - square building and not make it look like crap . Sometimes you get stuck fixing other peoples mistakes . I like to fix my own preferably . Things have gotten so sloppy these days , espescially the lower end , high return garbage . On the other hand , you should see some of the higher end quality work here in Colorado . But believe me , some of it is of question as well . NAIL IT !
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:01 AM   #8
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Just to update this one. WOW LOL

The guy that had this job. Got what he deserved.lol He and the GC went belly up. I don't know if this was the Job that did the GC/Developer in. But yeah. Nobody listened to me and the vaseline went short that day.

Moral of the story the framing sub owes labor and industry about 100k. Owes 30k for a forklift rental, nail supplier and didn't get paid 50k from the GC. Probably owes money to employees

Even though he was inkied it didn't matter. He was the sole owner. He can not get a licensed in this state till the debt is paid off. Well at least the money to the state.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #9
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


how easy is it to get work in those subdivisions?
do they even check you?
Could i just call them and tell them i am a framer do and estimate and start?
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:34 AM   #10
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by FramingPro
how easy is it to get work in those subdivisions?
do they even check you?
Could i just call them and tell them i am a framer do and estimate and start?
You go into their office with your paperwork, a few pictures, and tell them you're the best thing sense sliced bread.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:37 AM   #11
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by A&E Exteriors View Post
You go into their office with your paperwork, a few pictures, and tell them you're the best thing sense sliced bread.
actually? wow
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:26 PM   #12
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Quote:
Originally Posted by FramingPro

actually? wow
That's what the last guy did.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:42 PM   #13
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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actually? wow
What else did ya think? It's basically applying for a job.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:27 PM   #14
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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Originally Posted by FramingPro View Post
how easy is it to get work in those subdivisions?
do they even check you?
Could i just call them and tell them i am a framer do and estimate and start?
Not that hard. If there is demand for more labor they will hire a sub.

Yes they check. If you are new have good references from your past employers. You also have to have the required insurance. Tract insurance isn't cheap. This is why so many tract framers are tax cheats and thieves. Lets not forget cheapskates. The general has to be additional insured on your policy. They also check your workmans comp status.

Yep that is what you do call them up, visit their office. If they want you to give them a number they will ask or they will tell you this is what we pay and that is set in stone. A few years ago 9 times out of ten the price was set in stone by the GC.

This is why I hold that most developers of tracts are scumbags. They know those prices bring in the riff raff and all the problems that come with it.

However back then I didn't look to the future. Now looking back. I have surmized that my new marketing strategy has something to do with people that bought tracts housing and all the problems they are now having after the warrenty has expired.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:19 PM   #15
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Quote:
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how easy is it to get work in those subdivisions?
do they even check you?
Could i just call them and tell them i am a framer do and estimate and start?
Stay the hell out of subdivsions. I framed in them for years. Mattamy was my big client. My last subdivsion guy was Zavarella Homes. Still owes me a wack of money. In Subdivisions theres no money and more bull. Make a mistake and boom goes your profit. For the most part around here getting in to subdivsions is like anything else. Referal and knowing the right people. And because of past subdivsion contracts theres people I wish I could unknow. I frame high end custom and to me thats where its at.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:53 PM   #16
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


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Stay the hell out of subdivsions. I framed in them for years. Mattamy was my big client. My last subdivsion guy was Zavarella Homes. Still owes me a wack of money. In Subdivisions theres no money and more bull. Make a mistake and boom goes your profit. For the most part around here getting in to subdivsions is like anything else. Referal and knowing the right people. And because of past subdivsion contracts theres people I wish I could unknow. I frame high end custom and to me thats where its at.
I think it'd be a good staple in the beginning and probably better to have your first couple **** ups in a devlopment instead of on a 6000sf stick built custom.

Also, I'd like to know who is handing out these high end jobs to someone just starting out.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:04 PM   #17
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I think it'd be a good staple in the beginning and probably better to have your first couple **** ups in a devlopment instead of on a 6000sf stick built custom.

Also, I'd like to know who is handing out these high end jobs to someone just starting out.
yea that is what i think. to just work out the kinks in subdivisions before i get to do big special stuff.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:47 PM   #18
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yea that is what i think. to just work out the kinks in subdivisions before i get to do big special stuff.

You want to work out the kinks you do piece work. If you want to be sub-contractor in business you already have the kinks worked out. If not your days literally days will be numbered in a tract senario.

And have money in the bank. ****ing up a house that only pays 5 grand may payless after the vultures (other subs) have their way with you.

Keeping help around that are worth their salt with the wages that you will have to pay. Is tricky too. Around here we have the mexican crew they bring a lot of guys and their own tools to bang away for 2 bucks a foot. Sute the guy with the license is making his cut. But it ain't much. That is why it's all in volume. Most of these subs that are framing need to bang 35 house a month with large crew. If they don't they aren't really making it.

Be a carpenter not a framer. You will make more in the long run.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:51 PM   #19
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Re: Out Of Square Exterior Walls


Not all GC's are alike. Sure, it will take some work to find the right ones. You will have to pay your dues and get all your ducks in a row before the best jobs come your way, but it can and does happen. Most framing contractors do not last very long. The better ones usually move on to do their own GC jobs.

The ones that fail usually all follow the same routine. Too much overhead, bad job management, and poor communication.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:54 PM   #20
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You want to work out the kinks you do piece work. If you want to be sub-contractor in business you already have the kinks worked out. If not your days literally days will be numbered in a tract senario.

And have money in the bank. ****ing up a house that only pays 5 grand may payless after the vultures (other subs) have their way with you.

Keeping help around that are worth their salt with the wages that you will have to pay. Is tricky too. Around here we have the mexican crew they bring a lot of guys and their own tools to bang away for 2 bucks a foot. Sute the guy with the license is making his cut. But it ain't much. That is why it's all in volume. Most of these subs that are framing need to bang 35 house a month with large crew. If they don't they aren't really making it.

Be a carpenter not a framer.
You will make more in the long run.
and whats your user name again
piece work is uncommon around here so..
i want to be my own framer but sub for big framers until i get going

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