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Knee Wall Framing

 
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:18 PM   #21
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Deicide1 View Post
I don't think I can assume that this guy framed the roof, therefore I said find the angle...how he finds this angle does not matter to me.


I don't know anyone on this site, so I merely answered the guy's question. If he knew the answer than he shouldn't have asked.
I understand, i dont know everyone either. We all want to know how eachother do things,thats why we post. I don't think he was oblivious. And you "merely" said he should find a new trade if he cant handle this. C'mon now man.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:12 PM   #22
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Deicide1 View Post
How is it unnecessary? In order for the drywall to look good, you either need a top plate on you would need to use a laser level to set the studs accurately.

Why ask me how to rip it down? Use the t-square on your circular saw or rip it with a table saw. If you guys can't handle simple **** like this, then get out of the trade and do something easier.
What I specifically said was unnecessary...
Quote:
I don't think that beveling the topplate on a kneewall has anything to do with "the right way". It is an unnecessary step that is a waste of time.
So specifically, the beveling of the topplate is not necessary in my opinion. It does not make the drywall job or framing job look better, and it doesn't affect anything in a positive way structurally.

If you have a 2x plate, and have either 1/2" or 5/8" drywall, you won't have much of a gap for the drywall on the wall to go past the plate.

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Why ask me how to rip it down? Use the t-square on your circular saw or rip it with a table saw. If you guys can't handle simple **** like this, then get out of the trade and do something easier.
The reason I asked this is because I feel that if someone wants to waste the time to bevel the plate, it better be perfect. If it is not perfect, then what would the basis be for beveling it? I don't think there is any reason to show disrepect by using ****'s

And the pictures below indicate that I don't need to get out of the trades just yet.





Now where is that guide to help me bevel?
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:25 PM   #23
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


Well said Tim. Nice ceiling work too!!
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:39 PM   #24
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Timuhler View Post
What I specifically said was unnecessary... So specifically, the beveling of the topplate is not necessary in my opinion. It does not make the drywall job or framing job look better, and it doesn't affect anything in a positive way structurally.

If you have a 2x plate, and have either 1/2" or 5/8" drywall, you won't have much of a gap for the drywall on the wall to go past the plate.

The reason I asked this is because I feel that if someone wants to waste the time to bevel the plate, it better be perfect. If it is not perfect, then what would the basis be for beveling it? I don't think there is any reason to show disrepect by using ****'s

And the pictures below indicate that I don't need to get out of the trades just yet.




Now where is that guide to help me bevel?

Nothing difficult about anything in those pictures, so don't think those pictures prove anything.


Beveling the top plate gives you a nice flat and plumb edge to screw to and it makes that much easier to plumb the studs up to the outside edge of the plate.


I don't cut corners, so maybe we just have to agree to disagree on this.
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:27 PM   #25
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Deicide1 View Post
Nothing difficult about anything in those pictures, so don't think those pictures prove anything.


Beveling the top plate gives you a nice flat and plumb edge to screw to and it makes that much easier to plumb the studs up to the outside edge of the plate.


I don't cut corners, so maybe we just have to agree to disagree on this.
What those pictures prove is that I can back up what I post with credibility, not just words. I'm not just a wood butcher, but actually someone who can frame using his brain too.

The beveled edge of the plate has an edge for the studs to be lined up to, right? So does the unbeveled edge. So this is an advantage how? And how necessary is it to put a screw into the plate vs. 2" lower into the stud? Why is that an advantage? Please answer those questions. This isn't just for an argument between you and me, but for readers to get the breadth of the argument and make an informed decision.

Also, regarding the pictures, how many groin vaults have you framed and how did you figure the intersecting curves and lay them out. I've only done 2 and the second worked out a lot better than the first, thanks to John Kirkpatrick on the forums.

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no pun inteneded right?
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:58 PM   #26
 
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


Tim, don;t forget to throw up that rat run from gable to gable in the attic, not to mention your gable braces & your fire blocking on those end walls and, oh yeah good to see you can "cut corners" hahaha

Good job, thanks for sharing the pics

oh & what about electrical?? on that far wall I would put in a dbl outlet, also drop in a cable box while at it, don;t forget the plazma tv & on the opposite wall the beer fridge.

You can slide on the drywall for the 1st few beer parties.. Then we can do another post for that, k??
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:04 PM   #27
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Timuhler View Post
What those pictures prove is that I can back up what I post with credibility, not just words. I'm not just a wood butcher, but actually someone who can frame using his brain too.

The beveled edge of the plate has an edge for the studs to be lined up to, right? So does the unbeveled edge. So this is an advantage how? And how necessary is it to put a screw into the plate vs. 2" lower into the stud? Why is that an advantage? Please answer those questions. This isn't just for an argument between you and me, but for readers to get the breadth of the argument and make an informed decision.

Also, regarding the pictures, how many groin vaults have you framed and how did you figure the intersecting curves and lay them out. I've only done 2 and the second worked out a lot better than the first, thanks to John Kirkpatrick on the forums.

no pun inteneded right?

Yes, I don't cut corners, my laborers do.


Anyway, to be honest, it's no huge deal to do it one way or the other. I just find it nicer to put a bevel on the top plate for better screwing off of the drywall.


I'll continue to waste my time, while you save yours.


As far as the groin vaults, why not make it easy and make a template with some string and a pencil (a big compass).
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:19 PM   #28
 
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


When doing crete forms for drives or patios I use that string & pencil, works good.
For wood radius I can never keep that string from stretching. I have ot use a 1x as long as needed, drill a hole in the end for my pencil, screw the other end to me center point & works well for me.

Here is a bunch of small hlf circle I did with the stick/pencil deal, sux putting in your back poket though..
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:32 PM   #29
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Deicide1 View Post
I just find it nicer to put a bevel on the top plate for better screwing off of the drywall.
There's something to be said for not putting any screws in that area, especially when dealing with an obtuse angle like that. Don't get me wrong; I've always put a top plate in. But I'm not prepared to rule out the possibility that you can do without it.

If you put your highest screws in the vertical portion of the drywall about 6-8" down from the junction with the ceiling, then after everything is taped and mudded, you have a bit of flex available as the building moves and adjusts itself (as inevitably, any building does, no matter how old). That will somewhat lessen the likelihood of cracking.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:59 PM   #30
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
There's something to be said for not putting any screws in that area, especially when dealing with an obtuse angle like that. Don't get me wrong; I've always put a top plate in. But I'm not prepared to rule out the possibility that you can do without it.

If you put your highest screws in the vertical portion of the drywall about 6-8" down from the junction with the ceiling, then after everything is taped and mudded, you have a bit of flex available as the building moves and adjusts itself (as inevitably, any building does, no matter how old). That will somewhat lessen the likelihood of cracking.
and I agreed!
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:05 PM   #31
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Woops! Sorry.

Here: ŠA W Smith, 2009

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Old 01-04-2009, 10:12 PM   #32
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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As far as the groin vaults, why not make it easy and make a template with some string and a pencil (a big compass).
Couple of things on that. One is that on the groin vault, if both arches are circular the intersecting curve is elliptical. In my case it was a 6'x7' groin, so the 6' arch was circular (segmented arch) that required that both the intersecting curve and the 7' arch (barrel) be elliptical. It is much much easier to lay those out by lofting (similar to plotting to shapes on boats) than pulling huge arches or plotting the ellipses with a string.

John Kirkpatrick really simplified this because it is a huge hassle pulling arcs that are large.

Normally when I layout an ellipse, I use the string method http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/e...hape/pins.html and still will on most ellipses, but it gets too cumbersome to layout on larger archs.
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:22 PM   #33
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Re: Knee Wall Framing


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Originally Posted by Burby View Post
When doing crete forms for drives or patios I use that string & pencil, works good.
For wood radius I can never keep that string from stretching. I have ot use a 1x as long as needed, drill a hole in the end for my pencil, screw the other end to me center point & works well for me.

Here is a bunch of small hlf circle I did with the stick/pencil deal, sux putting in your back poket though..
Try using picture hanging wire. It won't stretch at all. I'll try and find some pictures showing that.

I framed a circular stairway a few years ago and used a 5/4x4 that we had laying around to layout the outside/inside and inside of the wall and that worked great to lay it out really dark on the floor.

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