How Would You Go About Repairing This? - Framing - Contractor Talk

How Would You Go About Repairing This?

 
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:13 PM   #1
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How Would You Go About Repairing This?


I looked at a project today where the homeowner installed a drop ceiling in the kitchen back in the mid 80's They cut through the bottom of 4 trusses in order to box out for the fluorescent lights. Now they want to restore the house to its original condition in order to sell.

I'm thinking of just replacing what was cut out previously which is the bottom chord 2x4 and using straps to tie it all together.

I will not be able to get pictures until we remove the drywall and suspended ceiling.

Any ideas on how to repair these trusses?


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Old 09-14-2010, 06:18 PM   #2
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Choo Choo!!



Call an engineer!!

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Old 09-14-2010, 06:36 PM   #3
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Plywood gussets?
Screws and Glue?
I always think of a truss as an oversized gusset.
Make all the smaller parts of it stronger than the whole.



oh yeah ...and call Warren's Engineer.........
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:40 PM   #4
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


If need be Replace the damage cord as a whole, meaning from gusset to gusset.
Or sister another 2x4 along side
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:44 PM   #5
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by festerized View Post
If need be Replace the damage cord as a whole, meaning from gusset to gusset.
Or sister another 2x4 along side
i was thinking sistering another 2x4 on each side from gusett to gussett.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:51 PM   #6
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Think like a lawyer, not like a tradesman. The eventual buyer will likely get a certified home inspector to look through the whole house. If this truss situation can be seen from anywhere, when all the fix and finish is done, Mr Inspector might raise a flag when seeing new lumber in there. It could bite the homeowner. For security, the owner should pay for a pro to sketch out the truss repair, and the pro should be qualified, and preferably licensed.

All us anonymous web crawlers can talk about sistering, bolting, scabbing, blah, blah, blah. You need to get things right, locally.

On the other hand, if the roof has not sagged, the ceilings have not fallen or sagged, and if this fix when finished is inaccessible without demolition, then do what you think is right.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:41 AM   #7
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MSLiechty View Post
I looked at a project today where the homeowner installed a drop ceiling in the kitchen back in the mid 80's They cut through the bottom of 4 trusses in order to box out for the fluorescent lights. Now they want to restore the house to its original condition in order to sell.

I'm thinking of just replacing what was cut out previously which is the bottom chord 2x4 and using straps to tie it all together.

I will not be able to get pictures until we remove the drywall and suspended ceiling.

Any ideas on how to repair these trusses?


ML
Most likely, if no strut intersects with the cut out section, a simple fix would be to fill in the missing bottom chord and then sister up a couple extras "scabs" and lap them onto the truss for a couple feet.

If you get an engineer involved, he'll give you the exact nailing schedule but I can basically explain it: "nail the sh** out of it" lol but don't put so many in that you broomstick the lumber.

If a strut is coming into the cut out section, it is signficantly more complicated and you would be wise to seek professional guidance, unless you've done some of these. I know what the fix is because I've done so many and if this was for myself, I'd just do what I know has to be done (blocks, glue and plywood gussets, along with the afore prescribed "nail the sh** out of it".
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:45 AM   #8
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


This reminds me of my experience with a naive friend who started a remodeling business. I decided to sell for him one fall because I was too busy coaching high school soccer. Anyways, I sold a couple of skylight installations in a vaulted ceiling that spanned the living/foyer area from the front of the house to the rear. We were putting in 48" wide units and had to cut a scissor truss. I just figured he'd have his project manager do it right...engineer it, etc.

Nope...his hacks just cut the truss and added a couple blocks to tie it back together in some fashion that was useless.

He was a good guy but I couldn't sell his company any longer after that (and a few other things).
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:47 AM   #9
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimAKAblue View Post
Most likely, if no strut intersects with the cut out section, a simple fix would be to fill in the missing bottom chord and then sister up a couple extras "scabs" and lap them onto the truss for a couple feet.

If you get an engineer involved, he'll give you the exact nailing schedule but I can basically explain it: "nail the sh** out of it" lol but don't put so many in that you broomstick the lumber.

If a strut is coming into the cut out section, it is signficantly more complicated and you would be wise to seek professional guidance, unless you've done some of these. I know what the fix is because I've done so many and if this was for myself, I'd just do what I know has to be done (blocks, glue and plywood gussets, along with the afore prescribed "nail the sh** out of it".
I just noticed your idea of using straps.

I don't think I'd approve of that, but it might work fine. We all know that the bottom chords are, generally, tensioned, so the straps will work if the nails hold etc.
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:12 AM   #10
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


I second the motion to call in an engineer. Get it stamped and approved, do the work according to spec, if there's problems it's the engineers arse, not yours. If homeowner doesn't want to pay for the engineering, then they don't want to pay you to do it right. Walk before it's too late.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:38 AM   #11
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


With CA having some of the most stringent Real Estate disclosure laws in the land & the propensity for law suits, to protect your & your clients exposure to liability hire an engineer. This way the the issue can be fully disclosed, & if repairs are made to engineers specs you will be greatly shielded from future liability.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:11 AM   #12
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Yep, do it right.... do it once.

Call in the engineer.
The last thing you want is a phone call saying your repair work is responsible for loosing the sale of the property.


Pictures would be nice as well.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:41 AM   #13
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


First...Never cut an engendered truss.
Second...Never repair a cut engendered truss unless an engineer gives you they OK......With stamped drawings.....


Just my 00.02
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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:23 PM   #14
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboJack View Post
First...Never cut an engendered truss.
Second...Never repair a cut engendered truss unless an engineer gives you they OK......With stamped drawings.....


Just my 00.02
Third: never say never.

We've repaired many trusses, then told the engineer what we've done. Miraculously, the repair specifications end up being exactly what we've done!

How could that be? Well, most repairs are the same type of repair that we've already done. Experience guides us.

What's the risk? we might have to chop out our repair and do something different. No big deal...we own a saw and we have more nails.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:39 PM   #15
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


I would listen to the California guys. I have seen some of the commercial prints for down there from my Dad on a seismic retrofit demo job he ran on the Pasadena Cityhall.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:49 PM   #16
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimAKAblue View Post
Third: never say never.

We've repaired many trusses, then told the engineer what we've done. Miraculously, the repair specifications end up being exactly what we've done!

How could that be? Well, most repairs are the same type of repair that we've already done. Experience guides us.

What's the risk? we might have to chop out our repair and do something different. No big deal...we own a saw and we have more nails.
Good for you.Glad it worked out...I would never,ever do that around here...
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Old 09-15-2010, 04:26 PM   #17
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Most experienced framers know what needs to be done to fix that, but also know that a sketch and stamp from an indie engineer is gonna run less than $100. Removes all liability and takes less than a couple days. Well worth it. If the HO insists against it, I wouldn't do the job, cause they can't afford me.
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Old 09-15-2010, 05:12 PM   #18
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboJack View Post
Good for you.Glad it worked out...I would never,ever do that around here...
I just noticed that you are in CA, the home of endless government burden and regulation. What they lack in common sense is more than made up for in endless bureaucracy.

My experience was in MI, and now here in Austin. We aren't dealing with any seismic zones and perhaps, that is the difference and thats why I said "never say never."

Also, fixing a bottom chord is really a simple fix. We normally only have to scab one block, 4' long, on and nail with a dozen 3" nails or so. I remember cracking a huge doubled girder (poor hookup and poorer crane operator judgment and execution). The bottom chord was separated by about 1/2". I envisioned a nightmare repair. Nope....one 6' 2x8 scabbed on each side.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:01 PM   #19
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


Jim, I do agree with you, that most experienced guys could easily come up with a solution that will mirror that of the SE. However, since most people in this lovely (read F**CKED up) state have an attorney or 2 on speed dial, it is in our best interest to proceed only after we have wet stamped drawings approved by the local Bldg. Dept. I would much rather deal with an Engineer than an attorney.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:16 PM   #20
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Re: How Would You Go About Repairing This?


I have built my far share of crack homes, opps I mean track homes.
We always got a few broken trusses. Manufacture always gave us extra 2x4 and gussets just repairing damaged trusses.
The manufacture gave us specific instructions on what and how we could repair.
If we had a broken not cracked, we could replace the damaged section from gusset to gusset using the provided material. We were not allowed to use any other wood brand. I believe the trusses were tested & rated for southern yellow pine and changing would was a not allowed.
If the truss was cracked we could splice a 8 board on either side centered on damaged area with a specific nail pattern.
Regardless we had the ok from the truss company to do the repairs

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