Getting Rid Of Loly Column - Framing - Contractor Talk

Getting Rid Of Loly Column

 
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:13 AM   #1
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Getting Rid Of Loly Column


O.K here goes ... I am working on basement finishing job I am doing the plumbing and radiant floor the guy doing the framing for all the walls is getting rid of one of the lolly columns in the basement there is a tripple 2x10 mid house support run from end to end they are putting 2x10 on both sides of the existing bean and bolting and nailing them together and then going to remove one lolly. the total run is 53 feet with a lolly every 8 feet from the starting from both gable ends there a 2 in the center about 4' apart from each other, The house is a single level ranch basement about 6 foot under grade 53'x25'. Can you just add extra lumber around a joint and remove a lolly ? It seems like a little over kill with the lollys but I know they are there to help support a 2x10 seam . Is there a better way besides knocking the old support out and replaceing it with a LVL ? The lolly the are going to remove is the scond one from the gabel end so it is the first time the inside 2x10 is seemed . the main beem is supported by concrete block at the gable end then a lolly the the next lolly has the big X on it .

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Old 01-24-2010, 11:25 AM   #2
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbouncer View Post
O.K here goes ... I am working on basement finishing job I am doing the plumbing and radiant floor the guy doing the framing for all the walls is getting rid of one of the lolly columns in the basement there is a tripple 2x10 mid house support run from end to end they are putting 2x10 on both sides of the existing bean and bolting and nailing them together and then going to remove one lolly. the total run is 53 feet with a lolly every 8 feet from the starting from both gable ends there a 2 in the center about 4' apart from each other, The house is a single level ranch basement about 6 foot under grade 53'x25'. Can you just add extra lumber around a joint and remove a lolly ? It seems like a little over kill with the lollys but I know they are there to help support a 2x10 seam . Is there a better way besides knocking the old support out and replaceing it with a LVL ? The lolly the are going to remove is the scond one from the gabel end so it is the first time the inside 2x10 is seemed . the main beem is supported by concrete block at the gable end then a lolly the the next lolly has the big X on it .

None of this should be done without an engineer looking at the situation and designing how to eliminate the lolly column. They are there for a reason.

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Old 01-24-2010, 11:29 AM   #3
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Please complete your profile, and continue to the intro page and tell us a little about yourself and your professional experience, thankyou and welcome to ct"...gmod
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:30 AM   #4
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


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Can you just add extra lumber around a joint and remove a lolly ?
The short answer is no. We don't know the particulars of this building, and what the engineer designed. That said, it would seem that there is a fair chance that the framer is doing this on his own accord, and there is no permit, engineer, or achitect involved in this project. I would guess that the framer may be talented at nailing wood together, his ability to design and analyze structures is poor, verging on dangerous.


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Is there a better way besides knocking the old support out and replaceing it with a LVL ?
Ask the PE
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:35 AM   #5
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbouncer View Post
O.K here goes ... I am working on basement finishing job I am doing the plumbing and radiant floor the guy doing the framing for all the walls is getting rid of one of the lolly columns in the basement there is a tripple 2x10 mid house support run from end to end they are putting 2x10 on both sides of the existing bean and bolting and nailing them together and then going to remove one lolly. the total run is 53 feet with a lolly every 8 feet from the starting from both gable ends there a 2 in the center about 4' apart from each other, The house is a single level ranch basement about 6 foot under grade 53'x25'. Can you just add extra lumber around a joint and remove a lolly ? It seems like a little over kill with the lollys but I know they are there to help support a 2x10 seam . Is there a better way besides knocking the old support out and replaceing it with a LVL ? The lolly the are going to remove is the scond one from the gabel end so it is the first time the inside 2x10 is seemed . the main beem is supported by concrete block at the gable end then a lolly the the next lolly has the big X on it .
There are several ways to do this. You said adding 2x10's and then said lvl's. Which is it?

Depending on what the girder is supporting above I have used lvl's to do this before. I've never used 2x's to do this. Most of the time we use a flitch plate on each side of the girder bolted or one thick flitch plate bolted. Every one I do is designed by an Architect. I hope the framer is following a set of plans drawn by an Architect or Engineer. Ask him if your curious.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:36 AM   #6
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Please post pictures of this process.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:40 AM   #7
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Quote:
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going to remove one lolly. Can you just add extra lumber around a joint and remove a lolly ? It seems like a little over kill with the lollys The lolly then a lolly the next lolly has the big X on it .


Oh yeah.......it's a Lally Column
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:50 AM   #8
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


See that learned something today lally not lolly (* thanks ) . I have seen a bunch of people doing reno jobs and general building and every day it seems like there is another guy who did "this" on another site so it SHOULD work her too. Seems like a big " should ". The bad part is I have worked with the carpenter on several jobs before this one just wondering how to approach this matter or leave it for the home owner to fix when the foundation cracks along with the sheetrock when the weight is redistributed ?

P.S you guys are quick to reply pretty darned amazing . Thanks keep your fingers safe !
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:56 AM   #9
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbouncer View Post
leave it for the home owner to fix when the foundation cracks along with the sheetrock when the weight is redistributed ?
You are not serious ....right??

Are you the GC?
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:01 PM   #10
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Quote:
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just wondering how to approach this matter or leave it for the home owner to fix when the foundation cracks along with the sheetrock ( or possibily much worse {added by anti-wingnut})when the weight is redistributed ?


The million dollar question. You're not an expert on beam and column capacity, and are not hired as one. You were not brought aboard as a owners representative, inspector, or consultant. And your knowledge of this subject comes from a bunch of anonymous cranks on the internet.

But your concern is well placed.

I do not have an easy answer how you should act to protect the homeowner, your own set of individual morals and ethics, and the professional autonomy of the (hack) framer.

Good luck
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:02 PM   #11
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


He's the plumber Cleve
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:04 PM   #12
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Quote:
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He's the plumber Cleve
Well then grab a sawzall and just cut the frikkin' thing out!!!!
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:20 PM   #13
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


This is why we have building permits.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:34 PM   #14
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Have an architect/engineer spec out a “Better Header” system
http://www.betterheader.com/
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:55 PM   #15
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


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Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
The million dollar question. You're not an expert on beam and column capacity, and are not hired as one. You were not brought aboard as a owners representative, inspector, or consultant. And your knowledge of this subject comes from a bunch of anonymous cranks on the internet.

But your concern is well placed.

I do not have an easy answer how you should act to protect the homeowner, your own set of individual morals and ethics, and the professional autonomy of the (hack) framer.

Good luck
Please do not use the word "framer" to define a hack like that. Anybody who would consider doing that without consulting an engineer is not a framer!!
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:10 PM   #16
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Here's an example of someone who sees hack work in progress.

What is he supposed to do? Call the building department? Tell the "carpenter" ( it hurt using that word ) to do it correctly or he will call the bldg. dept.?

Suggestions for the OP?
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:31 PM   #17
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


the plumber should talk to the owner.

"Please, have the carpenter leave the lally column in place until after my portion of the job is done and I'm no longer needed on site."
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:34 PM   #18
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Quote:
Originally Posted by festerized View Post
Have an architect/engineer spec out a “Better Header” system
http://www.betterheader.com/
Also know as a "Flitch plate"
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:40 PM   #19
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Thom has it right. It's not your business except that you have to be in there while someone is removing structure from the house. That IS your business: you might get hurt. Mention it to the home owner and see where he goes from there.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:16 PM   #20
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Re: Getting Rid Of Loly Column


Stamped drawing from my engineer-$250
structural safety and piece of mind- priceless

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