Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew - Framing - Contractor Talk

Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew

 
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:17 AM   #1
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Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


For the past 5 years I worked on a framing crew not as the foreman but as a carpenter. Often I would lay out walls or floor systems and cut rafters. You know the usual of a framing carpenter. Due to it not being my crew and just being a cog in the line Ive recently realized I did not have the attention to detail I thought I did.

Let me explain, I am now leading a framing crew at my new job. mostly single story truss roof houses built on a slab. Not to hard. Now we are doing a few two story houses. All the walls are dead on level and plumb the house is perfectly square. Im sure Ive triple checked.

My issue is going to layout and snap lines for the second story walls Ive realized my second floor is 7/16" bigger than my first story.

I guess my question is, is this an acceptable tolerance for any of you? Or Monday morning should I remedy this? Should I just chalk this up to variances in lumber? What is going on here? My worry is a almost half an inch over one story, Imagine if it were 4 stories that would be 2"!!

the house 36' by 28' or something like that if I remember correctly. It grew over the 36'
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:27 AM   #2
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Is it 7/16 in just one corner? That's gonna make an awkward corner to finish.

If it's both corners, is it that just one of the short walls is leaning? Is there a kitchen up against that wall?

Do you have a floor on, or are you still at joists?

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Old 02-18-2018, 10:42 AM   #3
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Either rip the house down or it is what it is. I'm sure based on plumb on the level it was perfect. But over 2 stories the small insignificant angle adds up.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:51 AM   #4
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Using a 4 ft level to check your walls for plumb?
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:02 AM   #5
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenestrate View Post
Is it 7/16 in just one corner? That's gonna make an awkward corner to finish.

If it's both corners, is it that just one of the short walls is leaning? Is there a kitchen up against that wall?

Do you have a floor on, or are you still at joists?
The floor is on and its just one corner. The kitchen is going on one of the interior partition walls not an exterior wall
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:02 AM   #6
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


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Using a 4 ft level to check your walls for plumb?
No haha a 6 foot level on 8 foot walls.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:04 AM   #7
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


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Either rip the house down or it is what it is. I'm sure based on plumb on the level it was perfect. But over 2 stories the small insignificant angle adds up.
Well the floor is on so I guess Im leaving it how it is. Ive got 3 more identical versions of this house to frame. Ill be taking much more time to check this stuff before I put the decking on. Im really beating myself up over this.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:40 AM   #8
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Did you pull diagonals before laying out the deck? Or is that how the 'Corner' that is off?
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:28 PM   #9
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


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Did you pull diagonals before laying out the deck? Or is that how the 'Corner' that is off?
Yeah I Pulled diagonals and thats how I found it was off.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:42 PM   #10
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


You have to be vigilant and keep checking things as work progresses. It can still be fixed, but the cost things goes up the farther along you get. One of the biggest things that I learned was that never cut things dead on. By that I mean if a wall looks to be 16' length, cut those plates a sixteenth less. Everything seems to grow with weather, cut tolerances, things not being dead tight, etc.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:09 PM   #11
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Did it get wet/frozen? could be that it swelled up. Measure again when dry.
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:21 PM   #12
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


As far as “industry standard” is concerned, it is acceptable.
That being said, your a good man and I applaud your concern as it shows something rarely found in the industry currently. Pride.

I’ve done very few homes in my life but millions of square feet of high rise, multi story projects. I always built from the inside out, off grid lines and use instruments to plumb walls. Even with that much detail, the width of a laser line, can be .25” between floors.

If shear panel is being used I would suggest the top get dimensioned before nailing off, or during PL.
Heck, bottom chord bearing floor trusses not being set perfectly plumb at exterior walls could add to that 7/16.

On multi story wood framing I would make my foreman snap the next floor (using grid lines) before the decking was nailed off to the exterior rim. Cut the deck to the wall line. If there was a discrepancy it could be dealt with immediately and massaged out before moving on.



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Old 02-18-2018, 03:35 PM   #13
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


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Originally Posted by youngcarpenter View Post
Yeah I Pulled diagonals and thats how I found it was off.
I'm all for tolerances less than 1/16 or being dead nuts over that distance. Greater scheme of things, not that big of deal, if your parallel walls are the exact same length. Or in this case the deck rim.
Treat the wall layout just like a foundation that's out of square by 1/2" Little ying, little yang you'll be within variance of widths of stud -SPF - trtd in terms of wall footpirnt growing.

Echoing Warren - You do need to figure out why and how thing grow and ways to counter it.
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:28 PM   #14
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Quote:
Originally Posted by youngcarpenter View Post
No haha a 6 foot level on 8 foot walls.

Lasers is the way to go, plumb plate to plate, it is very easy to gain 7/16 and not notice it, especially on a 36 foot run
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:45 PM   #15
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


It wasn't wet or frozen. I guess its just a matter of triple checking things at every stage of the frame not just assuming everything is still working and staying square.

Monday Im gonna show up early and attempt to diagnose what happened.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:43 PM   #16
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


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Lasers is the way to go, plumb plate to plate, it is very easy to gain 7/16 and not notice it, especially on a 36 foot run
or a plate level
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:55 PM   #17
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


A plumb bob is more accurate than a laser.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:14 AM   #18
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


Write up a change order for the extra square footage.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:18 PM   #19
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


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Write up a change order for the extra square footage.
Haha Im just an employee but thats a good one!
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:21 PM   #20
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Re: Framing Tolerances Second Floor Grew


A laser is fast and accurate. A 6’ level isn’t a good choice, especially a cheap one.

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