Framing Square Tables - Framing - Contractor Talk

Framing Square Tables

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2016, 07:12 PM   #1
Member
 
TiBoneFramer's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 49
Rewards Points: 6

Framing Square Tables


Fellow tradesman,

In my attempt to improve in my carpentry skils I feel the need to make a fool of myself and ask a beginners question.

How do I understand the tables on a framing sqaure? I get the octagon, board feet and brace tables. The one dealing with roof rafter lengths and the like goes over my head...to some degree. Any help guys?

Thanks
TiBoneFramer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to TiBoneFramer For This Useful Post:
Mordekyle (06-03-2016)

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 06-03-2016, 07:44 PM   #2
Pro
 
rselectric1's Avatar
 
Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 11,813
Rewards Points: 896

Re: Framing Square Tables


You would be amazed at what things you can do with a simple framing square. Since you've listed your trade as a framer, I am a bit confused about why you would be asking this question.

Advertisement

__________________
220...221...whatever it takes!
rselectric1 is offline  
Old 06-03-2016, 07:48 PM   #3
Pro
 
Mordekyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,480
Rewards Points: 5,258

Re: Framing Square Tables


I'm a bit confused as to why an electrician is busting the chops of a framer asking an honest question in trying to add to his skills and knowledge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mordekyle is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Mordekyle For This Useful Post:
Unger.const (06-04-2016)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-03-2016, 08:03 PM   #4
Pro
 
rselectric1's Avatar
 
Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 11,813
Rewards Points: 896

Re: Framing Square Tables


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordekyle View Post
I'm a bit confused as to why an electrician is busting the chops of a framer asking an honest question in trying to add to his skills and knowledge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't let my user name fool you. It happens often.

I have no issue with this post. It is however a pretty broad question. He can do birdsmouths, rafter lengths, stair treads, take offs for ridges, etc. with a couple dogs in place.

Before I was allowed to pound nail number one, I was trained on how to take advantage of a framing square and use it.

The framing square is a marvelous tool, and perhaps you should link to some you tube videos about that.
__________________
220...221...whatever it takes!
rselectric1 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to rselectric1 For This Useful Post:
mikeswoods (06-03-2016)
Old 06-03-2016, 08:25 PM   #5
Pro
 
mikeswoods's Avatar
 
Trade: interior remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kane Co. Illinois
Posts: 2,716
Rewards Points: 2,664

Re: Framing Square Tables


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordekyle View Post
I'm a bit confused as to why an electrician is busting the chops of a framer asking an honest question in trying to add to his skills and knowledge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just poking fun here----many of us have multiple skills--

I have 'executive chef' as one of my skills from days gone by-----
mikeswoods is offline  
Old 06-03-2016, 08:38 PM   #6
Member
 
TiBoneFramer's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 49
Rewards Points: 6

Re: Framing Square Tables


Your point is made. While I am a framer, I still do have a lot to learn. I admit that.

I think I went a little to vague for you guys. My appologize.

Take a look at the empire framing sqaure. (The one I have) It says on the rafter table area things like common rafter length per foot run, hip/valley rafter length per foot run, difference in length of jacks 24 oc, side cut length of jack rafters and side cut of hip/valley rafters. I want to use those tables...more effectivly. Any insight?

I do know how to cut common, hip, valley, jack etc rafters with a framing sqaure (as well as build stairs and so on) but I want to understand these tables.

Thanks for putting up with my stupidity!
TiBoneFramer is offline  
Old 06-03-2016, 08:45 PM   #7
Pro
 
mikeswoods's Avatar
 
Trade: interior remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kane Co. Illinois
Posts: 2,716
Rewards Points: 2,664

Re: Framing Square Tables


Don't feel stupid---I still keep a copy of the 'little blue book' in my glove compartment---I'm old and sometimes the memory fails me.
mikeswoods is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mikeswoods For This Useful Post:
CharlieDelta (08-30-2016)
Old 06-03-2016, 09:01 PM   #8
Pro
 
rselectric1's Avatar
 
Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 11,813
Rewards Points: 896

Re: Framing Square Tables


Quote:
Originally Posted by TiBoneFramer View Post
Your point is made. While I am a framer, I still do have a lot to learn. I admit that.

I think I went a little to vague for you guys. My appologize.

Take a look at the empire framing sqaure. (The one I have) It says on the rafter table area things like common rafter length per foot run, hip/valley rafter length per foot run, difference in length of jacks 24 oc, side cut length of jack rafters and side cut of hip/valley rafters. I want to use those tables...more effectivly. Any insight?

I do know how to cut common, hip, valley, jack etc rafters with a framing sqaure (as well as build stairs and so on) but I want to understand these tables.

Thanks for putting up with my stupidity!
Oh geez. No worries! Those tables show you how much to add to the length of the rafter based on the rise per run (or pitch which is a fraction). I'm sure there are some great you tube videos out there by old timers that show you how to do the calculations. Always remember to deduct half of the ridge member width when cutting the rafters. It get's forgotten all the time.
__________________
220...221...whatever it takes!
rselectric1 is offline  
Old 06-03-2016, 09:11 PM   #9
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 10,132
Rewards Points: 20

Re: Framing Square Tables


Rafter length per foot of run is the actual length of the rafter per each foot it runs.

example:

A 12/12 pitch rafter is 16.97 inches per foot of run. A run of 10 feet would give you a rafter length of 169.7
__________________
I'd love to replace all the dumbness in this room but the budget is tight and the stupidity is plentiful!

Easy Gibson
Warren is offline  
Old 06-03-2016, 09:19 PM   #10
Designer/Contractor
 
Rio's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Diego city/County, Cali
Posts: 3,244
Rewards Points: 178

Re: Framing Square Tables


Here's a link to a site that has a lot of information on the subject............

http://inspectapedia.com/roof/Framin..._Table_Use.php
Rio is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rio For This Useful Post:
rselectric1 (06-03-2016)
Old 06-04-2016, 01:12 AM   #11
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,519
Rewards Points: 1,074

Re: Framing Square Tables


Back when all this was more important, a 2 volume set was written on "The Steel Square" .
hdavis is online now  
Old 06-04-2016, 02:46 AM   #12
Hack
 
asevereid's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kamloops, B.C.
Posts: 2,766
Rewards Points: 32

Re: Framing Square Tables


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
Back when all this was more important, a 2 volume set was written on "The Steel Square" .
It's still important, but just not utilized anymore... Maybe even irrelevant with all the tech we've got now.
I'm still keenly interested in learning about the full uses of the framing square, have been for a few years. Just haven't gotten around to doing much more than stair layout, scaling rafters, and marking lines.
__________________
How to figure your pricing:
http://goo.gl/Il8c2
L+M+O+P/ Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Charging tree fiddy per lineal BOB
asevereid is online now  
Old 06-04-2016, 03:50 AM   #13
Pro
 
Big Shoe's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry,drywall,trim. Part time painter.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,473
Rewards Points: 2,056

Re: Framing Square Tables


Do they still come with an instruction manual. I have not bought a new one in a very long time.
__________________
Expect the Unexpected
Big Shoe is offline  
Old 06-04-2016, 03:58 AM   #14
Pro
 
m1911's Avatar
 
Trade: finish carpenter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,819
Rewards Points: 15,632

Re: Framing Square Tables


It's amazing that in this age of lasers and iphones, a little piece of metal with some stamped numbers and letters is still so dam useful...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipitop View Post
That guy in video have mental issues plus eat hole turtle from some reason
m1911 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to m1911 For This Useful Post:
asevereid (06-04-2016), hdavis (06-04-2016)
Old 06-04-2016, 04:31 AM   #15
Pro
 
Birch's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Central Texas
Posts: 696
Rewards Points: 1,058

Re: Framing Square Tables


Some History on the "Steel Square"

http://cdi.uvm.edu/findingaids/colle...square.ead.xml


The Tables are "Reference" material used by Framers. The Lengths charts are self-explanatory. The "Side-Cut . . ." were primarily used for marking Compound Miter cuts found on Hip/Vals and Jacks, to be cut with a handsaw.

The old "Step-off" method of marking Jacks lengths is not as accurate as calculating each length. The CMC's are modern replacements for the tables and other reference book tables. They make Irregular H/V Roof Framing much easier.

. . .
Birch is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Birch For This Useful Post:
hdavis (06-04-2016)
Old 06-04-2016, 06:49 AM   #16
Pro
 
Philament's Avatar
 
Trade: Whatever the customer wants
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,186
Rewards Points: 2,224

Re: Framing Square Tables


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shoe View Post
Do they still come with an instruction manual. I have not bought a new one in a very long time.
I just bought a Chappell framing square, it comes with a book, but never one from the big box stores.
Philament is offline  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:32 AM   #17
GC
 
1 NAILDRIVER's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Sothern Illinois
Posts: 37
Rewards Points: 78

Re: Framing Square Tables


I think it's great that you want to acquire more knowledge and understanding of the Steel Square ( Framing Square ) .

I have worked with VERY few Carpenters over the years that I would consider proficient with the Steel Square.

Most all Carpenters can make the pitch cuts, a lot of Carpenters know at least one of the methods for stepping off . Some understand the Rafter Tables and Brace Tables but for most this is where it stops ( at least in my experience ) .

Mostly I think it's because most Carpenters don't run across anyone that can teach them full use of the Square , and then you have the fact that in the modern world of construction the Carpenter doesn't get the opportunity to apply the Square for it's other uses very often .

There are 2 books I would recommend to you that will teach you full use of the Steel Square .

#1 - The Steel Square by H. H. Siegele

#2 - Roof Framing by H. H. Siegele

Both books are (IMO) as good of instructional books available for someone wanting to master the Steel Square .
1 NAILDRIVER is offline  
Old 06-04-2016, 12:26 PM   #18
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,519
Rewards Points: 1,074

Re: Framing Square Tables


I don't know of any better than some of the ones on this list, available for free download:

https://archive.org/search.php?query...%27+squares%22
hdavis is online now  
Old 06-04-2016, 12:34 PM   #19
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,519
Rewards Points: 1,074

Re: Framing Square Tables


List from archive.org:

Steel squares and their uses
Jul 21, 2008
Hodgson, Fred. T. (Frederick Thomas), 1836-1919
texts
Topic: Carpenters' squares
91

The carpenters' steel square, and its uses : being a description of the square, and its uses in obtaining the lengths and bevels of all kinds of rafters, hips, groins, braces, brackets, purlins, collar-beams, and jack-rafters : also, its application in obtaining the bevels and cuts for hoppers, spring mouldings, octagons, stairs, diminished stiles, etc., etc., etc.
Feb 18, 2015
Hodgson, Fred. T. (Frederick Thomas), 1836-1919
texts
Topic: Carpenters' squares
673

The carpenters' steel square, and its uses : being a description of the square, and its uses in obtaining the lengths and bevels of all kinds of rafters, hips, groins, braces, brackets, purlings, collar-beams, and jack-rafters
Sep 29, 2008
Hodgson, Fred. T. (Frederick Thomas), 1836-1919
texts
Topic: Carpenters' squares
562

Vol 1: The steel square and its uses; a complete, up-to-date encyclopedia on the practical uses of the steel square
Sep 17, 2008
Radford, William A., 1865-; Woods, Alfred W., joint ed; Reuther, William, joint ed
texts
Book digitized by Google from the library of the New York Public Library and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.
Topic: Carpenters' squares
Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=3sYJAAAAIAAJ&oe=UTF-8
467

The carpenters' steel square, and its uses: being a description of the square and its uses in obtaining the lengths and bevels of all kinds of rafters, hips, groins, braces, brackets, purlins, collar beams, and jack-rafters ..
Jul 18, 2009
Hodgson, Fred. T. (Frederick Thomas), 1836-1919
texts
Book digitized by Google from the library of Harvard University and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.
Topic: Carpenters' squares
Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=O-IXAAAAYAAJ&oe=UTF-8
372

Vol 2: The steel square and its uses; a complete, up-to-date encyclopedia on the practical uses of the steel square
Sep 17, 2008
Radford, William A., 1865-; Woods, Alfred W., joint ed; Reuther, William, joint ed
texts
Book digitized by Google from the library of the New York Public Library and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.
Topic: Carpenters' squares
Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=sL8JAAAAIAAJ&oe=UTF-8
1,708

Stair-building and The steel square; a manual of practical instruction in the art of stair-building and hand-railing, and the manifold uses of the steel square
Dec 11, 2006
Hodgson, Fred. T. (Frederick Thomas), 1836-1919; Williams, Morris
texts
pt. 1. Stair-building, by Fred T. Hodgson and Morris Williams.-- pt. 2. The steel square, by Morris Williams
Topics: Stair building, Carpenters' squares
575

Vol 1: A practical treatise on the steel square and its application to everyday use : being an exhaustive collection of steel square problems and solutions, "old and new", with many original and useful additions, forming a complete encyclopedia of steel square knowledge, together with a brief history of the square, and description of tables, keys and other aids and attachments
Sep 16, 2010
Hodgson, Fred. T. (Frederick Thomas),

I have these, plus some hard copies, and I can't imagine anything was missed.
hdavis is online now  
Old 06-04-2016, 01:30 PM   #20
Member
 
TiBoneFramer's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 49
Rewards Points: 6

Re: Framing Square Tables


I am most certainly going to read a few of those.

I dont know, I kinda feel like I want to be an old school carpenter....hand cutting everything, driving 16s in one lick with a rig axe, using nothing more than a tape and framing sqaure to lay stuff out.

Of course then I go to work and that whole idea goes to well....

Mag77LT and NV83A4 all the way!

Advertisement

TiBoneFramer is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TiBoneFramer For This Useful Post:
asevereid (06-04-2016), CharlieDelta (08-30-2016), hdavis (06-05-2016)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Framing addition - Matching existing roof plane ncornilsen Framing 18 01-11-2013 12:47 PM
Pricing by the sq. ft./lin. ft./unit Seven-Delta-FortyOne Business 13 02-09-2012 12:19 PM
Framing Documents To Die For NC2X4 Framing 33 09-17-2010 10:45 AM
Price per Square Foot for Framing Contractors in Dallas / Fort Worth? Habit Framing 1 02-08-2010 07:26 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?