Floor Creaking At Knee Wall - Framing - Contractor Talk

Floor Creaking At Knee Wall

 
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Old 03-07-2015, 03:49 PM   #1
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Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


I recently had a call back about the floor creaking near the knee walls in a bonus room over a garage. When I say knee walls, it is not at the exterior but the walls a few feet in where it is sheet rocked, behind it is dead space. When it is walked on, the joists are deflecting and the friction on the nails going from the bottom plate into the joists is causing the noise. Bottom plate is not staying up when the joist deflect down. The wall is staying up tight where it is nailed to rafters.
I had to cut holes in sheet rock to get access to where I could get back there and cut all the nails between subfloor and bottom plate with a sawzall. Now the existing kickers are the only thing stabilizing it. I asked the builder what he thought on how to prevent this in the future and he recommended oversized holes for lags with rubber washers. In the past he tried glueing and screwing the bottom plate down and he said that caused the top plate to pull off the bottom of rafters causing sheet rock problems.

My question is does anybody here have a method on preventing this? Any suggestions are appreciated.
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Old 03-07-2015, 04:48 PM   #2
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


Maybe use larger joists that don't deflect as much? What is the current joist size and span?

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Old 03-07-2015, 05:51 PM   #3
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


put in a beam front to back to stiffen the floor joist
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:33 PM   #4
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


During my warranty/punch list days due to an injury long ago I fixed a bunch of them. Sometimes thin wedges driven under the plate works wonders. Just depends. Ive seen hangers cause it, joist riding high, decking not properly fastened not glued etc. Sometimes I could knock it right off, something it would take a few hours depending and it definately takes patience. I definately don't see where the extra framing would make a difference. Pin it down and cut the floor as a last resort. I very seldom had to do this and when I did it was not always where I thought it was. Man those are fun.
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:10 PM   #5
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


The joists are 16" TJI's, 22' span if I remember correctly. Couldn't alter framing without approval from engineer or the powers that be. Beam across middle would definitely help. I thought about shimming it as well. Just one of those things you make work whichever way you can.
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:15 PM   #6
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


Use Simpson SDWS lag screws through the shoe plate into floor beams

Last edited by festerized; 03-07-2015 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 03-07-2015, 09:24 PM   #7
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


Solid block the joists under the knee wall.
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Old 03-07-2015, 11:51 PM   #8
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


During my warranty/punch list days due to an injury long ago I fixed a bunch of them. Sometimes thin wedges driven under the plate works wonders. Just depends. Ive seen hangers cause it, joist riding high, decking not properly fastened not glued etc. Sometimes I could knock it right off, something it would take a few hours depending and it definately takes patience. I definately don't see where the extra framing would make a difference. Pin it down and cut the floor as a last resort. I very seldom had to do this and when I did it was not always where I thought it was. Man those are fun.
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Old 03-08-2015, 06:11 PM   #9
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcarpenter View Post
I definately don't see where the extra framing would make a difference.
I'm talking about tracing the load. Roof>rafters>top plate> knee wall studs>subfloor (as you mentioned that could have been done wrong)>floor joist connection to the plate below. Doubt the FJ's are rocking but drawing the bottom plate of the knee wall to the FJ's and then locking the blocks to the top plate of the wall below with 3" screws could cause it all to go away. As you said, the noise is coming from something not riding right/the teeter. Get rid of the teeter.

I wish every wall in my house was solid blocked under the walls (on the plates). Less noise. My subfloor wasn't done as well as I'd like either. Next time we replace the flooring my M18 impact and I are having a date with a couple boxes of screws.
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Old 03-08-2015, 06:36 PM   #10
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


Well I would have thought shrinkage on dimensional Rafters and FJ loosened the wall. But you said 16" Engineered. I dont feel like looking up the 22 ft span for deflection and at what point the wall is attached but there lies the problem. Im sure whoever framed the kneewall had 10's in the gun for everything. That held better to the rafters than the sill plate where 16's should have been used.
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Old 03-08-2015, 06:55 PM   #11
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


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Well I would have thought shrinkage on dimensional Rafters and FJ loosened the wall. But you said 16" Engineered. I dont feel like looking up the 22 ft span for deflection and at what point the wall is attached but there lies the problem. Im sure whoever framed the kneewall had 10's in the gun for everything. That held better to the rafters than the sill plate where 16's should have been used.
Last plans I saw with TJIs had 10d listed. They don't allow 16's.

Edit: I agree as well; we're allowed to use thin shank Passlode 3 1/4 (just checked my bags) in our guns but they're not really 16's. Doesn't seem quite kosher.

Last edited by rmcivil; 03-08-2015 at 07:12 PM. Reason: More info
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:34 AM   #12
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Re: Floor Creaking At Knee Wall


I dont know what brand or what kind of flange, LVL or dimensional but when you add in the subfloor your nail length needs to be longer

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