Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long?????? - Page 5 - Framing - Contractor Talk

Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-28-2016, 10:43 PM   #81
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder Professional Painter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 16,952
Rewards Points: 5,334

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by A&E Exteriors View Post
Did Tipi get vacation while I was spelling out how he should approach the job?
Yes, but you can tell me - I'm a good listener.
__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 01-28-2016, 10:44 PM   #82
Shingler extraordinaire
 
A&E Exteriors's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing, decks, additions
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 8,699
Rewards Points: 14,006

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
Yes, but you can tell me - I'm a good listener.
That sucks, I shoulda typed faster.... I actually had a useful post
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&E Exteriors View Post
Tipi I would approach the job like this...

1, you have already supported the joists and cut back the sheetrock.

2, install diagonal bracing from top of exterior wall every 6 feet towards center wall

3, cut joists to accomodate beam. You can do this from above or below.

4, install beam. You can also do this from above or below.

If you are short of help you can set all your trimmers in place (should all be in place before setting beam)
And drop in one LVL at a time, attach hangers.

If you can round up the help, you can remove the wall first and set the beam pre assembled. I would be sure to have some people help that have done this several times if you go this route.





What you should under no circumstances do is decide for yourself that the SE specd and stamped plan is overkill or ridiculous no matter how much you think it is. Sure it is more work but you are charging by the hour and are charging extra on top of it. Make it take a day and a half or 2 whole days to set.

If you change it and something happens, it is your ass buddy.
A&E Exteriors is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 10:50 PM   #83
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder Professional Painter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 16,952
Rewards Points: 5,334

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by A&E Exteriors View Post
That sucks, I shoulda typed faster.... I actually had a useful post
Yes you did. And it will be right here for Tipi to see.

Tipi can still view posts you know. If WindWash wants to hire out to Tipi, he should post some sort of way for Tipi to contact him.
__________________
All my Life loving Hippie friends turned into soul-sucking Conservatives - or died. Same difference.
"Mornin' ladies, my goodness don't you look happy. Must be cuttin' somebody up pretty good." - Andy Griffiths
SmallTownGuy is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SmallTownGuy For This Useful Post:
A&E Exteriors (01-28-2016), m1911 (01-29-2016)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-28-2016, 10:58 PM   #84
Windwash
 
Windwash's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shoreview, MN
Posts: 588
Rewards Points: 148

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
Yes you did. And it will be right here for Tipi to see.

Tipi can still view posts you know. If WindWash wants to hire out to Tipi, he should post some sort of way for Tipi to contact him.
I'm sure I'm not in his builder's budget
Windwash is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Windwash For This Useful Post:
SmallTownGuy (01-28-2016)
Old 01-28-2016, 11:28 PM   #85
Windwash
 
Windwash's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shoreview, MN
Posts: 588
Rewards Points: 148

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
Tipi is a lucky SOB....

he just won a 30 day cruise......
So let me get this straight. If 5-7 guys want to talk about installing a header in fairly small house in a fairly straight forward manner with no swearing, name calling or other behavior that would not look good for the sponsors of Contractortalk, that is a problem? Especially if 5 or 6 of the guys are established members and know what they are talking about?

Just because you live in Cali and have to play by their rules does not mean the rest of of us cannot ask the question "why does it have to be way over engineered ( even though maybe it wasn't.)

You should reconsider your suspension of Tipi.
Windwash is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Windwash For This Useful Post:
A&E Exteriors (01-28-2016), Framer53 (01-29-2016), m1911 (01-29-2016)
Old 01-28-2016, 11:37 PM   #86
Shingler extraordinaire
 
A&E Exteriors's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing, decks, additions
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 8,699
Rewards Points: 14,006

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by Windwash View Post

You should reconsider your suspension of Tipi.
I kinda agree, 30 days is pretty harsh. I got a cruise once. Went out of my way for it too. Only got 7 or 10 days. I was definatley more out of line than tipi was as well. JMO
A&E Exteriors is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:43 PM   #87
Fire up the BBQ
 
griz's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 22,340

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Nothing to do with where I live or how I have to operate....

He had direction from a SE and did not like it.

Don't we all.

No different than defying plans and specs.

I have no issue at all with guys discussing how to do something....

I have seen and dealt with way too many liability issues to ignore what a SE says.

Deal with it and move on....
__________________
SOME JOBS JUST AREN'T WORTH DOING:
griz is online now  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:50 PM   #88
Designer/Contractor
 
Rio's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Diego city/County, Cali
Posts: 3,244
Rewards Points: 80

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


If you think the SE screwed up the calcs, pay another one to check and see.
Rio is online now  
Old 01-29-2016, 12:27 AM   #89
Windwash
 
Windwash's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shoreview, MN
Posts: 588
Rewards Points: 148

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
Nothing to do with where I live or how I have to operate....

He had direction from a SE and did not like it.

Don't we all.

No different than defying plans and specs.

I have no issue at all with guys discussing how to do something....

I have seen and dealt with way too many liability issues to ignore what a SE says.

Deal with it and move on....
As I recall from the thread, he hadn't defied the engineer (yet) but was asking about it. Big whoop! " He should have asked "should I pull a permit for this header job" and the thread would have gone on for ever.
Windwash is offline  
Old 01-29-2016, 07:53 AM   #90
General Contractor
 
greg24k's Avatar
 
Trade: New Home Construction-Additions-Remodeling
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,660
Rewards Points: 8,474

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Tipitop, it's pretty simple here...

I don't know how he came up with his calculations and the beam size, but there could be 2 reasons, one being that is what you need per his calculations, or he is using that size beam to be on the safe side.

If you want, call him up and ask him to explain how he came up with that beam size... or before you call him, do your own calculation and figure out the total load, the lateral load and what is the actual deflection limit that beam must meet. That is the only way you can figure what size beam will work in you or any other situation.
You cannot just eyeball it and say this will definitely work because it works someplace else, with that mentality the structure failure happens and you end up with a huge headache.

That is what I do in cases like that, I will calculate the loads, I will match them up with the Manufacturer Beam Chart and present them to my Architect or my Engineer and show them how I came to that calculation and that I can use a smaller beam or sometimes I will tell them that the beam they designed will not work and a larger beam is needed and again I will show them why.

In your case if you don't know how to do the calculations, get second opinion or do what the Engineer suggested... after all the customer is paying for the Engineer,they pay for the material and your labor, so if you want, charge them extra for labor to slip another beam.

Good luck with the job
__________________
I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!
greg24k is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to greg24k For This Useful Post:
Rio (01-29-2016)
Old 01-29-2016, 08:18 AM   #91
Pro
 
builditguy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,209
Rewards Points: 1,620

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Wow. I feel like I wasn't invited to a party. Tipi posted yesterday and now it's on page 5? How could I have missed it. I didn't even get a chance to decipher. Either I missed it, or the definition of "Broth" wasn't given. Maybe it will be in tomorrow's edition when they post the answers to the sodoku puzzle.

I can only assume Tipi made a post that was inappropriate, it was caught and deleted. Hence the 30 day time out.

Hopefully there was a warning in there somewhere. If I am right about an inappropriate posting, I think it is possible his lack of language comprehension could have prevented him from understanding that he was being offensive.

Either way, I hope he comes back in 30 days. I will miss his posts.

Edit: Ok, I found it. #58. At least he got a warning. I'm not sure he understood it though.

Last edited by builditguy; 01-29-2016 at 08:24 AM. Reason: was looking for Broth definition and found the warning.
builditguy is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to builditguy For This Useful Post:
Metro M & L (01-29-2016)
Old 01-29-2016, 09:54 AM   #92
edward trowelhands
 
Golden view's Avatar
 
Trade: Diplomat
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PDX
Posts: 4,685
Rewards Points: 158

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Also late to the game, but I punched this into BC Calc. If it's just attic load, my software says 2 16" LVLs would do it, but even with 3 the center would deflect .5". 2 14" LVL's fail.

If there are any purlins at all to the roof, the 3 makes sense.

If the span was just a little shorter, say 16', 2 11 7/8" LVLs do it.

It's all about that span.
__________________
You make something idiot proof and the world invents a better idiot.
Golden view is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Golden view For This Useful Post:
greg24k (01-29-2016)
Old 01-29-2016, 11:57 AM   #93
General Contractor
 
greg24k's Avatar
 
Trade: New Home Construction-Additions-Remodeling
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,660
Rewards Points: 8,474

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden view View Post
Also late to the game, but I punched this into BC Calc. If it's just attic load, my software says 2 16" LVLs would do it, but even with 3 the center would deflect .5". 2 14" LVL's fail.

If there are any purlins at all to the roof, the 3 makes sense.

If the span was just a little shorter, say 16', 2 11 7/8" LVLs do it.

It's all about that span.
Andrew I couldn't agree with you more... and I'm pretty sure there is a good reason why he called for a triple.

I remember when I was starting out I thought everything is pretty simple, you can use this or that and that should do it, but when you start to learn the technical aspect of how things work and what calculations should be done to establish proper bearing, its amazing the finding you will find.
I always do calculations and check beams that Architects suggest, and yes sometimes they over do it and sometimes they under do it. So important to know and learn how to double check all structural components if you work with structural modifications... Same like you, you used a calculator to determine what will work and what will not (on the given situation).

The OP obviously going by the look of it and a guess... He might get lucky and he might not. Let's hope that he will for his and the HO sake.

He is taking out a 21' wall, which is a basic gable (A frame) roof over an attic floor. In this situation the A Frame roof acts as a simple "truss" which resists roof loads like snow, etc. With this type of a roof construction, its typical that the upper ends of the rafters connect to a 2x ridge, and lower ends bearing on the exterior wall.
If we take any typical gable roof, we all know there is always outward thrust force occurs at low ends of the rafters which comes from the downward load on the roof. If there is no resistance to lateral movement, rafters gonna move outward horizontally and the roof will collapse.
The way to stop that from happening is to prevent the upper ends of the rafter to move downward, and in this case I assume the upper rafter ends are supported by a ridge beam.

With that said we know that the lower the roof the higher outward force will be on the exterior wall (in this case we don't know the pitch, the size of the roof, what is the span of the roof, nada) all we know is that he is taking out 21' wall. If there is a low pitch and a long span most architects will call for a structural ridge so it can reduce loading on the lower rafter ends.

Maybe in this case with the wall being removed, engineer thought that the connections between lower end of rafters and the attic floor joists will not have adequate capacity to resist outward thrust force,and maybe there should be a few additional columns or framing posts to be installed or should have been installed prior, or maybe they already there to provide additional ridge support which will be bearing on the attic floor which is bearing on the wall below.

Now that wall is being removed something needs to support the upper loads and at the same time horizontal lateral loads, etc. Many don't understand that or just don't know how this forces work.

Look at this example I have it saved, if the uniform gravity load to be resisted by ridge beam is 160 PLF dead load + 320 PLF snow load. For 10 feet spacing of supports...design load applied to each support is at least 4,800 pounds, depending of course on the span conditions ( in this example is a simple one). This is considered to be a relatively large load which will require reinforcement of attic floor framing and even floor framing below, down to the foundation or a girder.
In this case the framing below is being removed, and the beam will act as the attic floor support, so I can see why he want to use triple 16" LVP over 21' span, not to mention that the wall is 21' so there has to be a break on the ridge someplace which will require to have one or more support posts to begin with.

Have fun fellas, for those who don't know... live and learn
__________________
I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!
greg24k is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to greg24k For This Useful Post:
EricBrancard (01-29-2016), Golden view (01-29-2016), m1911 (01-29-2016), Metro M & L (01-29-2016)
Old 01-29-2016, 02:28 PM   #94
Pro
 
Dan_Watson's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Contractor/Helical Post Installer
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,351
Rewards Points: 2,720

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


You let him sail before pictures were uploaded!
Dan_Watson is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Dan_Watson For This Useful Post:
A&E Exteriors (01-29-2016)
Old 01-29-2016, 03:15 PM   #95
PCI
 
PCI's Avatar
 
Trade: contractor
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 623
Rewards Points: 848

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


My invitation must have been delayed in the mail. I wanted tipi to pm me the address so I could go see him in action as I'm only working a couple of miles away.

ps tipi, harbor freight is in Columbia Heights right off of Central Av for your come alongs.
PCI is online now  
Old 01-29-2016, 05:35 PM   #96
Pro
 
m1911's Avatar
 
Trade: finish carpenter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,819
Rewards Points: 15,632

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Not to mention, any load that was supported over the entire 21' of wall, is now bearing on only two points.
m1911 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to m1911 For This Useful Post:
greg24k (01-29-2016)
Old 01-29-2016, 06:10 PM   #97
Pro
 
dave_dj1's Avatar
 
Trade: general contractor
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Upsate Ny/Vt border
Posts: 1,012
Rewards Points: 1,138

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


Awe man, I was waiting for the pictures of the roof laying on the LVL's from the two walls spreading! Darn.
Do you all think him getting shot in the head with a nailgun has anything to do with his typing skills? Was he "that way" before?
I got's to find customers like his. Just give an hourly rate and have at it
dave_dj1 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to dave_dj1 For This Useful Post:
A&E Exteriors (01-29-2016)
Old 01-29-2016, 06:13 PM   #98
Pro
 
builditguy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,209
Rewards Points: 1,620

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


You know, I noticed he said he shot himself in the head. I wondered about the extent of it.
builditguy is online now  
Old 01-29-2016, 06:26 PM   #99
Box Builder
 
Morning Wood's Avatar
 
Trade: Pretty much anything with wood and some metals
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rockport, MA
Posts: 6,169
Rewards Points: 9,986

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


I have a hard enough time understanding his posts for the most part. Then he gets banned for 30 days for I have no idea. Then I read he shot himself in the head with a nail gun. I'm so confused. I think I need to go back to school to learn how to read better.
Morning Wood is offline  
Old 01-29-2016, 06:37 PM   #100
Pro
 
m1911's Avatar
 
Trade: finish carpenter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,819
Rewards Points: 15,632

Re: Customer Broth 3 16" Wide LVLs 21' Long??????


I bet Tipi is a fun guy you can hang out with at the local pub for a few drinks. He probably comes across as a jackass because of his lack of English comprehension. Think how difficult or next to impossible it would be for one of us to go to a foreign country and communicate half as well as Tipi, or even find a job. Heck, half the native Californians I work with daily can hardly read and write English properly. :Laughing:

Advertisement

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipitop View Post
That guy in video have mental issues plus eat hole turtle from some reason
m1911 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to m1911 For This Useful Post:
A&E Exteriors (01-29-2016), CenTexan (02-03-2016)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roofer vs. Roofer (Just a long winded hypothetical) Thunder1 Roofing 13 12-20-2014 07:17 AM
Laminate flooring issue with customer beachwork Flooring 26 03-07-2013 01:56 AM
Long beach, Long Island Tashler Help Wanted or Looking For Work 16 12-20-2012 03:42 PM
how long to paint a front door. Scribbles Painting & Finish Work 74 05-06-2010 10:56 AM
Customer terminates contract snowflake Business 15 06-09-2009 10:51 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?