Ballon Framing A Gable Wall. - Framing - Contractor Talk

Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-21-2015, 12:57 AM   #1
Carpenter/Finisher
 
john5mt's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Helena, Montana
Posts: 1,628
Rewards Points: 1,424

Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


So out west here we dont stick frame roofs very often. Usually you build the walls and install the trusses per the engineer's plan unless there is a huge vaulted ceiling in the main room.

Like these:




What we usually do with those is lay them out on the ground. Works out fine.

I am building a shed for my backyard and wanted to build a balloon framed wall like a drop truss. So basically 3 1/2" lower than the top of my rafters. I drew it up on sketchup to help me figure out what the dimensions for everything would be.



Doing this just got me to thinking. Is there some quick formula or method i havent come across that would help accomplish this task but doesnt require me drawing a picture on the floor or on sketchup?

__________________
1st Gen tradesman
My summer job in college became my profession
john5mt is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-21-2015, 01:05 AM   #2
GC/carpenter
 
Californiadecks's Avatar
 
Trade: Decking, Railing, Carpenter/General Contractor
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Anaheim Hills, California (OC)
Posts: 33,519
Rewards Points: 4,692

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


You looking for each stud length?

Advertisement

Californiadecks is online now  
Old 03-21-2015, 01:28 AM   #3
CAD Services
 
wallmaxx's Avatar
 
Trade: So done with this place...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,678
Rewards Points: 144

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


You can get stud lengths using a 16" offset and the roof pitch in CM. I think BuildCalc has a rake function built in.

When I was doing this...............I drew EVERYTHING.

I sometimes got a bit crazy, but I have everything I could possibly need.

The trick is to dimension along the raked plate where the studs intersect so it all fits. The tighter you mark and cut it, the more it "self-trues".

Last edited by wallmaxx; 07-05-2016 at 11:52 AM.
wallmaxx is offline  
   
 
Old 03-21-2015, 02:16 AM   #4
Joseph A. Capece
 
CENTERLINE MV's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder - General
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Martha's Vineyard, MA
Posts: 1,777
Rewards Points: 1,382

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


With a construction calc, type in your roof pitch and enter 16" for "run" (assuming 16" O.C. Spacing). If you hit "rise" you'll know how much to add/subtract from each successive stud length. If you hit "diag" you'll know The distance between each stud on the rafter.
__________________
Follow us on FACEBOOK
www.centerlinebuilders.net
Martha's Vineyard General Contractors - Builders -
Commercial/Residential - Additions - Renovations
CENTERLINE MV is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CENTERLINE MV For This Useful Post:
Framer87 (03-21-2015), john5mt (03-21-2015)
Old 03-21-2015, 02:52 AM   #5
Carpenter/Finisher
 
john5mt's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Helena, Montana
Posts: 1,628
Rewards Points: 1,424

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
You looking for each stud length?
Not necessarily each stud length. More so overall height, and height of the material at an angle.

97 1/8" tall wall.
12' wide
7/12 pitch.
2x8 rafters

What's the height of your peak? My struggle has been calculating the height of the rafter at an angle. Once you figure out that number the rest of the numbers should be easy to figure i think.

Now that i think about it. If you take the inverse of your pitch and apply it to your rafter size as the rise I think that would help with figuring out the height. Just need to punch it in the construction master:

2x8...7 1/4" .....

So for a 7/12 pitch a 7 1/4" rafter should be 8 3/8" tall? and a 2x4 is 4" tall?

Which means if you have a 12' wide wall built with 92 5/8" studs...Your peak should be 12' 1 3/16".

I think
__________________
1st Gen tradesman
My summer job in college became my profession

Last edited by john5mt; 03-21-2015 at 03:05 AM.
john5mt is offline  
Old 03-21-2015, 07:54 AM   #6
Pro
 
kiteman's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,729
Rewards Points: 16

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


I've always just snapped it out. A line straight across at 97 1/8, a line vertical at the center, 6'. 6'x7 =42" snap the rakes. Mark up 3 3/4" (71/4-3 1/2) parallel with the rakes. Then just cut your 29 deg tops and run the bottoms wild. Square up off the bottom line + 1 1/2", snap a line on the studs a ns cut. Nail on bottom plate. Presto!
__________________
An old framer once told me "For years I thought I was the best damn carpenter in California. Come to find out I'm just competent."
kiteman is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kiteman For This Useful Post:
Railman (03-21-2015), Texas Wax (03-21-2015)
Old 03-21-2015, 08:16 AM   #7
Pro
 
Railman's Avatar
 
Trade: Railing
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,339
Rewards Points: 459

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteman View Post
I've always just snapped it out. A line straight across at 97 1/8, a line vertical at the center, 6'. 6'x7 =42" snap the rakes. Mark up 3 3/4" (71/4-3 1/2) parallel with the rakes. Then just cut your 29 deg tops and run the bottoms wild. Square up off the bottom line + 1 1/2", snap a line on the studs a ns cut. Nail on bottom plate. Presto!
That's how we always did it.
Sometimes the real deal is better than "Brain Masterbat'n".
Railman is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Railman For This Useful Post:
kiteman (03-21-2015)
Old 03-21-2015, 08:25 AM   #8
Pro
 
Framer87's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 552
Rewards Points: 1,156

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteman View Post
I've always just snapped it out. A line straight across at 97 1/8, a line vertical at the center, 6'. 6'x7 =42" snap the rakes. Mark up 3 3/4" (71/4-3 1/2) parallel with the rakes. Then just cut your 29 deg tops and run the bottoms wild. Square up off the bottom line + 1 1/2", snap a line on the studs a ns cut. Nail on bottom plate. Presto!
You do plug up the floor for a bit this way really depends how many guys you got to keep moving. Getting comfortable with a CM has greatly increased our speed on rake walls. The whole thing will be precut and layed out and when we get to it we just lay it down and frame it and out of the way. Doesn't take any longer than a regular wall.
Framer87 is offline  
Old 03-21-2015, 08:31 AM   #9
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 9,873
Rewards Points: 6,741

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Railman View Post
That's how we always did it.
Sometimes the real deal is better than "Brain Masterbat'n".
I totally agree with this. I don't use a CM for anything, although I actually own two of them. Snapping out the wall takes but a few minutes. I can visually see and know the accuracy of it. It does take up space, but often we will frame it in one area and then lift it with the forklift and move it where it goes.
__________________
I'd love to replace all the dumbness in this room but the budget is tight and the stupidity is plentiful!

Easy Gibson
Warren is offline  
Old 03-21-2015, 08:35 AM   #10
Pro
 
Framer87's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 552
Rewards Points: 1,156

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by john5mt View Post
Not necessarily each stud length. More so overall height, and height of the material at an angle.

97 1/8" tall wall.
12' wide
7/12 pitch.
2x8 rafters

What's the height of your peak? My struggle has been calculating the height of the rafter at an angle. Once you figure out that number the rest of the numbers should be easy to figure i think.

Now that i think about it. If you take the inverse of your pitch and apply it to your rafter size as the rise I think that would help with figuring out the height. Just need to punch it in the construction master:

2x8...7 1/4" .....

So for a 7/12 pitch a 7 1/4" rafter should be 8 3/8" tall? and a 2x4 is 4" tall?

Which means if you have a 12' wide wall built with 92 5/8" studs...Your peak should be 12' 1 3/16".

I think
8'1 1/8" + 8 3/8"- 4 1/16" = 8' 5 7/16" + 42" slope gain = 11'11 7/16. But you really should put a seat cut on those rafters so it will be less

Last edited by Framer87; 03-21-2015 at 08:39 AM.
Framer87 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Framer87 For This Useful Post:
john5mt (03-23-2015)
Old 03-21-2015, 09:05 AM   #11
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 20,821
Rewards Points: 4,035

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


If you're just trying to figure out how high the peak is, just draw out the layers of the roof structure running horizontal, then run a line through it at the roof pitch and measure along the line. Add that to your wall height and rise.
hdavis is online now  
Old 03-22-2015, 05:56 PM   #12
Pro
 
txgencon's Avatar
 
Trade: General & Electrical Contracting
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 2,479
Rewards Points: 430

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


I'm in the middle of this issue at the moment. In discussions with the truss manufacturer, one of the things you have to specify is heel height. If you're going to be building your own balloon framed end gable walls, you'll also need to know what the heel height on the trusses will be. Heel height is specified to allow a designer to add height above the wall plates for insulation. It can be anywhere from 0" (bottom of rafter touching the plate) to as much as 18" or more.
Attached Thumbnails
Ballon Framing a Gable wall.-heel-height.jpg  
__________________
I used to think a lot of the people I encountered were stupid - then I realized how much I was overestimating them.

Last edited by txgencon; 03-22-2015 at 05:59 PM.
txgencon is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to txgencon For This Useful Post:
hdavis (03-22-2015), Joasis (03-23-2015), Railman (03-23-2015), wallmaxx (03-29-2015)
Old 03-23-2015, 06:54 AM   #13
Pro
 
Joasis's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hennessey, Oklahoma
Posts: 8,939
Rewards Points: 2,956

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Especially if you decide to "barge" the rafter to allow for rake framing.

We always snap the lines. Some old school ways are simply easier then trying to transfer the numbers to the wall being built.
__________________
Ladwig Construction
Hennessey, Oklahoma
405 853 1563

Insulated Concrete Homes / ICF's
My Facebook Page
Joasis is offline  
Old 03-23-2015, 07:11 AM   #14
Pro
 
Railman's Avatar
 
Trade: Railing
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,339
Rewards Points: 459

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by txgencon View Post
I'm in the middle of this issue at the moment. In discussions with the truss manufacturer, one of the things you have to specify is heel height. If you're going to be building your own balloon framed end gable walls, you'll also need to know what the heel height on the trusses will be.
That's an excellent point!
I remember quite a few jobs put on hold until trusses showed up. I just didn't trust the verbal numbers!.
Joe
Railman is offline  
Old 03-23-2015, 08:14 AM   #15
Pro
 
Timuhler's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 1,061
Rewards Points: 746

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


https://youtu.be/HAdEnz2eg_E

https://youtu.be/GsleZFnCuSA

We always snap out full size and go from there. If you have trusses, we eliminate the gable truss and frame the rakewall. We go 1/4" less in height than the heel we give the truss company.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10166...425?banner=pwa
Timuhler is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Timuhler For This Useful Post:
wallmaxx (03-25-2015)
Old 03-23-2015, 08:39 AM   #16
Pro
 
txgencon's Avatar
 
Trade: General & Electrical Contracting
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 2,479
Rewards Points: 430

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Timuhler View Post
https://youtu.be/HAdEnz2eg_E

https://youtu.be/GsleZFnCuSA

We always snap out full size and go from there. If you have trusses, we eliminate the gable truss and frame the rakewall. We go 1/4" less in height than the heel we give the truss company.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10166...425?banner=pwa
Just curious. Do you then pad/fill/furr up to match or do you call 1/4" close enough?
__________________
I used to think a lot of the people I encountered were stupid - then I realized how much I was overestimating them.
txgencon is offline  
Old 03-27-2015, 08:10 AM   #17
Pro
 
Timuhler's Avatar
 
Trade: Framer
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 1,061
Rewards Points: 746

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by txgencon View Post
Just curious. Do you then pad/fill/furr up to match or do you call 1/4" close enough?
It seems that no matter how well we cut everything, it grows. The framer who taught me used to say that and now experience confirms it.

We stick our roofs, so we'll measure the actual heelstand when the walls are all up and we are usually right where we want to be on the rakewall because we built it a little lower.

I find when we truss the roof too, they are always an 1/8th higher, so in that case we built the rake right at our numbers and it works out. We have had to pack the top of the rakewall before, and that's easy. We get 1/4" ply. I think that's happened once.

What used to happen is that we'd have a rake wall taller than the roof, so we'd shim the first 3 or 4 rafters and feather it. But building them 1/4" lower has eliminated that problem.
Timuhler is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Timuhler For This Useful Post:
Framer87 (03-27-2015), kiteman (03-27-2015), Railman (03-28-2015), txgencon (03-27-2015), Warren (03-27-2015)
Old 03-27-2015, 08:41 PM   #18
Pro
 
Framer87's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 552
Rewards Points: 1,156

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Timuhler View Post
It seems that no matter how well we cut everything, it grows. The framer who taught me used to say that and now experience confirms it.

We stick our roofs, so we'll measure the actual heelstand when the walls are all up and we are usually right where we want to be on the rakewall because we built it a little lower.

I find when we truss the roof too, they are always an 1/8th higher, so in that case we built the rake right at our numbers and it works out. We have had to pack the top of the rakewall before, and that's easy. We get 1/4" ply. I think that's happened once.

What used to happen is that we'd have a rake wall taller than the roof, so we'd shim the first 3 or 4 rafters and feather it. But building them 1/4" lower has eliminated that problem.
You do that just on sticked roofs or on trussed roofs as well? My experience same as yours on sticked, however for trussed always plan numbers. Always build rake walls before trusses ever make it to site and 9 out of 10 times a 7 7/16" heel will come out as 7 9/16"+. Always hang our eave fascia with a level off of the top of wall and hang that 1/8" higher than book numbers as well. Planes in everytime that way.
Framer87 is offline  
Old 03-27-2015, 08:47 PM   #19
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 9,873
Rewards Points: 6,741

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


Always easier to add if you are a little short than it is to subtract.
__________________
I'd love to replace all the dumbness in this room but the budget is tight and the stupidity is plentiful!

Easy Gibson
Warren is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Warren For This Useful Post:
JT Wood (03-28-2015)
Old 04-03-2015, 06:01 AM   #20
Forming and Framing
 
FramingPro's Avatar
 
Trade: Shell builder
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,273
Rewards Points: 3,582

Re: Ballon Framing A Gable Wall.


I usually draw it up on sketch up real quick or snap out using 2 rafters as guide lines. Similar to Tim i double plate it and leave notches in the cap plate for the occasionally outlook laying flat. If i can plan it the night before i wil draw it. easy to measure.. make a cut list and send anyone off to cut it. A get a lot of doubts but... never had one off more then 1/8"

I hate, hate hate having to do infill on gables afterward.
Attached Thumbnails
Ballon Framing a Gable wall.-img_0231.jpg  

Advertisement

__________________
Im after fortune and frame

http://www.proicf.com
http://instagram.com/instagrauds
FramingPro is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Traditional Framing a threat to National Security Dustincoc Framing 43 08-19-2013 10:41 AM
Gable wall framing overanalyze Framing 52 02-20-2012 08:33 PM
Top 10 framing errors - and how to prevent them (From a Professional Builder Email) wallmaxx Framing 9 02-20-2012 07:57 PM
2x8 plate and 2x4 staggered studs for wall framing Webs Framing 30 03-09-2011 04:59 PM
Framing 2 story great room wall dbryant11 Framing 23 02-04-2010 11:25 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?