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Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling

 
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:43 PM   #1
 
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Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


Need help on Crown Molding on inset Trey Ceiling

I am used to installing crown molding on flat drywall.

However my current customer would like me to install crown molding at the top of her (recessed) trey ceiling. See attached picture; black marks show where crown molding is to be installed.

Obviously where the cust wants the molding installed presents a third angle. I am not sure my miter (mitre) saw can accommodate this but perhaps there are some tricks.

Also trey is not 100% straight-a bit wavy in parts.

Appreciate any help.
Sincerely
Peter
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:51 PM   #2
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


How about boxing it out, there for correcting the angle

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Old 01-29-2010, 08:59 PM   #3
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


hit it with your ts first

Last edited by smeagol; 01-29-2010 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Did not see existing crown
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:04 PM   #4
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


I think it would be as simple as cutting the bottom edge of the molding to the angle of the wall. Then everything else should be just about the same. The corner is at 90 degrees, just skewed. Never did it before but this is where I would start.

Second way would be to make a box for the crown to sit on square.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:12 PM   #5
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


my first thought would be a two piece crown and to use the table saw to form it to provide a vertical plane for nailing the crown onto. It would seem that this piece could not be very tall b/c of the angle of your wall.


Leo-what do you mean by 'make a box'? are we desribing the same thing?
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:19 PM   #6
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


just nail some base up there, at that angle it will look just like crown.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:41 PM   #7
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


Hey Warner, is that a crapper on you in your avatar?
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:50 PM   #8
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


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Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4 View Post
my first thought would be a two piece crown and to use the table saw to form it to provide a vertical plane for nailing the crown onto. It would seem that this piece could not be very tall b/c of the angle of your wall.


Leo-what do you mean by 'make a box'? are we desribing the same thing?
Hang a board vertical from the ceiling and then a board horizontal from that into the angled wall. Then you have a square, vertical surface to place your crown on. You would need to do something under the box to alleviate the flat area.

I think putting a cut on the crown is the best option.

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Old 01-29-2010, 09:55 PM   #9
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


Leo got it “Looks good on paper” [architect joke]
Might be your best bet
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:00 PM   #10
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


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Hey Warner, is that a crapper on you in your avatar?
Sure is, an old 1932 or 34 'Standard'. I have the wall mount tank, lid, seat and guts wrapped in bubble wrap in a box.
I think I have 1/2 dozen of those now, wall mounts, all a little different in style.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:26 PM   #11
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


You already have a cove angle to work with - use a detailed wide projected molding ,ogee or round over on top,same on bottom, I don't know what kind of equipment you have but you can miter the top to fit the ceiling on a TS and put a Ogee or round over on the base of the molding- look at the diagram of the case molding 4.5" profile .

Another option is to create a horizontal cleat filler to match the angle of the tray with the bottom being parallel to the ceiling (square), install the top of the Cove molding to the ceiling as it usually and the bottom to the matching cleat filler , in other words it is a custom trim to fill the offset angle -if you are limited in wood shaping equipment ,i woudl choose the wide profile base molding option and angle the base on a TS- you can fill the whole tray bottom edge to ceiling , or just the one coarse. the picture below is an example of chair rail-stacked, another option,,
Hope you can work this out-
Good luck with the cove MLDG project.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:54 PM   #12
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


I would go with what LEO posted...as long as that skewed 90* corner is not skewed more then the spring angle of the crown you shouldn't have any problems after you rip the bottom...
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:20 PM   #13
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo G View Post
Hang a board vertical from the ceiling and then a board horizontal from that into the angled wall. Then you have a square, vertical surface to place your crown on. You would need to do something under the box to alleviate the flat area.

I think putting a cut on the crown is the best option.


I Just have one comment about your idea ,,, and no offense to your reply leo,,,,,,great idea - but from my experience, there is no way you can cut that narrow vertical angle on a CAB TS -or CONT TS - . If you tilt your cove molding drawing up vertically you will see that,,, imagining the back of the molding up against the fence on a TS ,the blade would have to end up in the fence, cutting into it,, - not saying it is impossible, but realistically I think the molding would be imprecise and uneven- at best,,IMO. However,It can be angle properly by being planed on a Tilting shaper, with a 2" 3/8d planing & hog bit giving a clean angle from end to end- IMO,,that will work. - that was a great drawing by the way and great idea , but I think he needs to have a tilting Shaper to do this professionally ,,,IMO ,what were you suggesting on how to get this angle??? I am always open to new ideas , new methods
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:34 PM   #14
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


You need to put a sacrificial fence on the TS and then raise the blade into it. Run the molding with the back up against the sacrificial fence and it is easy and accurate.




Any more questions?
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:41 PM   #15
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeR&D View Post
I Just have one comment about your idea ,,, and no offense to your reply leo,,,,,,great idea - but from my experience, there is no way you can cut that narrow vertical angle on a CAB TS -or CONT TS - . If you tilt your cove molding drawing up vertically you will see that,,, imagining the back of the molding up against the fence on a TS ,the blade would have to end up in the fence, cutting into it,, - not saying it is impossible, but realistically I think the molding would be imprecise and uneven- at best,,IMO. However,It can be angle properly by being planed on a Tilting shaper, with a 2" 3/8d planing & hog bit giving a clean angle from end to end- IMO,,that will work. - that was a great drawing by the way and great idea , but I think he needs to have a tilting Shaper to do this professionally ,,,IMO ,what were you suggesting on how to get this angle??? I am always open to new ideas , new methods
Without the advantage of the snazy graphics Leo can do, bear with me.

Take that same cross section and imagine the fence of the table saw on the left side of the crown just the way it sits. Fence is right at the plane of the vertical surface at the top of the crown. A narrow strip is double sided sticky taped to the fence under the profile holding the crown at the proper spring angle. Blade is at the angle of the tray represented by the line cutting though the bottom of the crown. Get busy ripping.

Make a jig for your chop saw to hold the crown upside down and at the original spring angle to the fence. Miter as usual.

Go to the bank and cash the check.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:45 PM   #16
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


The guys got a CNC machine but no CAD to show drawings



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Old 01-29-2010, 11:49 PM   #17
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


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The guys got a CNC machine but no CAD to show drawings



Why do you think I am so anxious for you to go cnc Leo? You got the mad computer skilz it takes to pull it off. I would be glad to take the back seat to you when you take the plunge.

What do you have to be afraid of?
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:56 PM   #18
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


The CAD (KeyCAD) I use cost me $13.95 and I got it at Staples.

I have AutoCAD and AutoDesk but only use them when I am sent a file from someone and need to open it. I can use AutoCAD but I am sloooow. I fly with my KeyCAD.

Just need a huge backlog of work and a large infusion of cash Gus and your dream will be mine too.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:08 AM   #19
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


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The CAD (KeyCAD)

Just need a huge backlog of work and a large infusion of cash Gus and your dream will be mine too.
You will have a lot of fun with it as you well know.

I'm still wanting you to have it asap. We will have a ton of fun chatting about all the ins and outs.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:51 AM   #20
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Re: Need Help On Crown Molding On Trey Ceiling


If you were to cut the new angle to the bottom of the crown as shown in the pictures, how would you cut it? Would you just slide your crownstops down to make it fit against the fence, just sitting lower? I know if I thought about this long enough, it would come to me. But it's way past my bedtime and the mental capacity is slipping with my lack of sleep. Also, if you cut it flat on the saw, you would have to figure a whole new set of angles as the spring angle is changed, right?

One other thought, I think it's pretty cool how the internet has changed communication. Here you have two guys (Gus and Leo)who live on opposite ends of the country, who I assume have never met yet are completely familiar with each others carpentry skills, talking like the live just across town from each other. And all the while a knucklehead like me is up at 2:45 in the morning asking crazy questions that popped into my head while reading about what a fourth guy (pcumming) is working on right now. Thank you Al Gore for inventing the information superhighway!

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