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Old 01-01-2013, 11:51 AM   #1
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Kitchen Cabinet Build


Happy Holidays fellow tradesmen

I am interested in building my own kitchen cabinets and have a few questions. Recently built my 1st bookcase and used 3/4 x 4 x10 birch and poplar face frames. The job came out great a was lot easier then I thought.

This is for one my own buildings that I have had for a while and never got around to completing the reno due to timing and cost.
I priced out the cabinets at HD, Lowes, Ikea and ProBuild Kitchens and they where all around 12-13k not even including knobs.

The kitchen wall is tuck pointed red brick so it will mostly be open wall shelving.
Room for 2-pantries and a lot of base cabinets including one large island.

Leaning towards paint grade finish South West Santa Fe Style and color

I think my biggest challenge here is going to be the hardware, door and drawers.

What type of ply is best for paint grade finish? Birch ?
What hardwood would be best for the face frames?
Making doors? Styles, build technics open to ideas.
Drawer and Door Hardware? Good Stuff soft close durable and made to last.
Cabinet attachment: Biscuits, pocket screws, dato’s. And I’m not buying the domino although the more I look at it the uses I see for it. Dam the green...
Am I overlooking any questions?

Lay out will consist of.
The kitchen wall is tuck pointed red brick so it will mostly be open wall shelving.
2-pantries and a 10-12” x 24 x 8ft sliding cabinet. A good amount of base cabinets including one large island.

I welcome ideas but mostly need help with assembly I’m open to design ideas if you want to add


link to sample doors /drawer I'm leaning towards: http://www.houzz.com/photos/404162/K...chen-vancouver

Thank you in advance for your time and a big Welcome to a prosperous and Healthy 2013

Yannis
www.citydecksinc.com
www.citypropertiesinc.net

Last edited by CITY DECKS INC; 01-01-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:07 PM   #2
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Quote:
Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
I priced out the cabinets at HD, Lowes, Ikea and ProBuild Kitchens and they where all around 12-13k not even including knobs.
Is this an installed price? If not, I'm guessing you have yourself a decently large kitchen for your first try. I might re-think this honestly.

Knobs are never included. Almost never I should say. If you get a package deal from Lowe's, sometimes they have their own they throw in...simple ones though.

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Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
What type of ply is best for paint grade finish? Birch ?
IMO...no. You may want to check out lightweight MDF if you are painting. If you want ply...IMO Maple doesn't transfer the grain nearly as much. We are not talking ACX...we are discussing C3 cabinet grade minimum.

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Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
What hardwood would be best for the face frames?
You could possibly get by with Poplar, but it has a tendency to move more and transfer grain again. Hard Maple is what I use almost exclusively now, but soft Maple will be slightly less money.

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Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
Making doors? Styles, build technics open to ideas.
Buy them

Quote:
Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
Drawer and Door Hardware? Good Stuff soft close durable and made to last.
Blum tandem 563's

Quote:
Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
Cabinet attachment: Biscuits, pocket screws, datoís. And Iím not buying the domino although the more I look at it the uses I see for it. Dam the green...

I prefer pocket screws. If you have plenty of clamps, you could bypass this. Domino is not as nice to attach FF's to boxes. Yes, you can do it, but pocket screws are faster

Quote:
Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
Am I overlooking any questions?
The only one I suggest you ask yourself many times is "do I really want to do this?"

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Old 01-01-2013, 12:44 PM   #3
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Your photo ref (Houzz) shows what I believe to be frameless cabinetry, and the best way to approach this might be for you to use prefinished maple plywood for carcases, or industrial grade particleboard faced with melamine in the very common "hard rock maple" satin finish.

Frameless carcases are easy to build using screws. You will need to face the front edges of carcase parts, and this can be done by taking your parts to a shop with an edgebander, or just do it yourself with materials and tools easily sourced. Fastcap has the tools.

You could edgeband with solid stock milled to about 1/8" thickness and then glue them on and carefully trim.

Hardware would all be Blum if it were me building these. Download their catalogs which give all technical info for installation.

You could get all the fronts made by someone such as Walzcraft, stained and prefinished, to match just about exactly what you see in the Houzz photo. Walzcraft will build you your 5/8" hard maple dovetailed drawerboxes, too.

Your biggest challenge in time investment at this point is the design, and by that I mean the full kitchen layout, and then the careful detailing of all the cabinets and components so you have all the technical info for your building, and your ordering of parts.

If you are willing to do this, there a lots of resources available online. If you are not, I might suggest you just lay out your kitchen as best you can, and source the whole package as a build-it-yourself from precut kitted parts from Scherr's Cabinets and Doors, Minot, North Dakota. Leon Scherr will help you out.

And you'll pay less for the package than those big box factory made prices you mentioned.

Here is a pic of a part of one of the kitchen cab jobs I layed out and then built using Scherr's RTA (ready to assemble) kits. Fronts can be just about any species, any style.
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Last edited by Willin; 01-01-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:45 PM   #4
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


563's???

Blum 562H with blumotion.

Hinges depend on what you want to spend and the look you are going for. FF or compact hinges as Blum calls them leave the door about 3/16" away from the FF. The more expensive Euro hinges will get you 1/16" away from the FF. They can come with Blumotion slow close, on most doors you only need one slow close and one standard hinge.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:54 PM   #5
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


13k not installed.
Just being funny about knobs.
Decent size yes. 24lf -/+ including pantryís
donít care for mdf so Maple it is. and we are talking about 3/4 ply ...right?
Hard Maple over poplar. not worried or looking to pinching pennies. Any thought about white oak? better same or no difference?
doors to buy.. I you like or have any vendors?
pocket screws preferred and do have plenty of clamps.
i have been thinking about this for a while and willing to take on the challenges. the good thing is that I am not a hurry and want to make sure I get all of the getting to get ready out of the way prior to starting.

Thanks for the help Duke. BTW you do nice work.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:13 PM   #6
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Here is one of the web resources I mentioned, this one from Blum. While it is all based around the 32mm system of line-drilling carcase sides ("gables" are what many builders call carcase sides), the overall carcase sizing works well, and the location of stretchers for doors and drawerfronts is a good starting point.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...s32_041204.pdf

Cabinets built thus, with simple butt-joints, are readily put together with some very simple assembly aids, a staple gun, and a drill and impact gun.

The more demanding part of doing frameless cabinetry the first time is the drilling of all those 5mm hardware fixing holes, and maybe the drilling of holes in doors for the 35mm cups and screws or studs. Outfits such as Woodworkers Hardware in Minneapolis and Fastcap have all the jigs and fixtures for doing this manually using cordless drills, so your hardware fits correctly.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:41 PM   #7
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo G View Post
563's???

Blum 562H with blumotion.

Hinges depend on what you want to spend and the look you are going for. FF or compact hinges as Blum calls them leave the door about 3/16" away from the FF. The more expensive Euro hinges will get you 1/16" away from the FF. They can come with Blumotion slow close, on most doors you only need one slow close and one standard hinge.
Yes....563H Leo. I forgot the blumotion. They are the new runners with the new locking clips for side to side adjustment. Those things are awesome.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:50 PM   #8
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Quote:
Originally Posted by CITY DECKS INC View Post
13k not installed.
Just being funny about knobs.
Decent size yes. 24lf -/+ including pantryís
donít care for mdf so Maple it is. and we are talking about 3/4 ply ...right?
Hard Maple over poplar. not worried or looking to pinching pennies. Any thought about white oak? better same or no difference?
doors to buy.. I you like or have any vendors?
pocket screws preferred and do have plenty of clamps.
i have been thinking about this for a while and willing to take on the challenges. the good thing is that I am not a hurry and want to make sure I get all of the getting to get ready out of the way prior to starting.

Thanks for the help Duke. BTW you do nice work.
Thank you.

White oak and painting? The pores will show, just fyi...unless you paint the snot out of them. And to paint over white oak....not sure if the tannins will affect it.

Hard maple imo gives the absolute best painted base you can get. Smooth as can be. You would think poplar would be fine, same with cherry....but the grain telegraphs through. I feel that Birch does too, but others disagree. I can see it personally.

How are you painting? Brush? Spray?
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:36 PM   #9
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


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Yes....563H Leo. I forgot the blumotion. They are the new runners with the new locking clips for side to side adjustment. Those things are awesome.
Didn't show in a search.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:46 PM   #10
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


I like soft maple to paint, I feel dirty painting hard maple. I don't notice grain telegraphing on poplar, but it is a lot softer then maple and will get dinged up easier.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:49 PM   #11
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


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White oak and painting? The pores will show, just fyi...unless you paint the snot out of them. And to paint over white oak....not sure if the tannins will affect it.
I was just in a kitchen that was oak, painted white and black, brush. It was a freaking fantastic look, makes everything else seem mass.....I loved it. I gotta find photos...
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:53 PM   #12
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Are the 563's gonna phase out the 562's? First i seen heard about them until i did a search. I usually just reorder off my last buy. On a side note where are you guys buying your blum hardware? AH turf is the cheapest i could find, like $18 for 562's but sometimes it takes forever for them to process my order.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:59 PM   #13
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


From the Walzcraft catalog, a nice door and drawerfront style one might call Santa Fe, or sort of.

They always do maple as the species when a product is painted, but this door has MDF panels, good for control of seasonal movement. Look at their description of the species, the paint, and the glaze over the paint.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #14
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


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Thank you.

White oak and painting? The pores will show, just fyi...unless you paint the snot out of them. And to paint over white oak....not sure if the tannins will affect it.

Hard maple imo gives the absolute best painted base you can get. Smooth as can be. You would think poplar would be fine, same with cherry....but the grain telegraphs through. I feel that Birch does too, but others disagree. I can see it personally.

How are you painting? Brush? Spray?
- paint will probably be sprayed. i have custom cabinet shop that i have used in the past for pro finish in booth. like a car paint booth.
- hard maple it is in the lead for ff.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:28 PM   #15
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Quote:
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Didn't show in a search.
I guess you are just falling behind then Leo

http://www.blum.com/us/en/01/30/10/

pdf file of the new catalog

http://d1.blum.com/mefiles/BEC003/td...n_$aof_$v1.pdf

The 563's are similar to the 562's just that the locking device makes a difference. Has the little wheel for side to side adjustment.

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Old 01-01-2013, 05:33 PM   #16
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


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Are the 563's gonna phase out the 562's? First i seen heard about them until i did a search. I usually just reorder off my last buy. On a side note where are you guys buying your blum hardware? AH turf is the cheapest i could find, like $18 for 562's but sometimes it takes forever for them to process my order.
Depends on how popular they become. The self close were the best priced for a long time, the blumotion were about $6 more. Now I am paying the same for the blumotion as I was for the self close.

If you get enough people buying them the price will get lower and the 562H's will go the way of the self close.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:35 PM   #17
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


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I guess you are just falling behind then Leo

http://www.blum.com/us/en/01/30/10/

pdf file of the new catalog

http://d1.blum.com/mefiles/BEC003/td...n_$aof_$v1.pdf

The 563's are similar to the 562's just that the locking device makes a difference. Has the little wheel for side to side adjustment.

I put blum 563 in the search engine and it told me no documents were found. Lame.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:44 PM   #18
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


They have been pushing them at Atlantic. Gave me the new Tandem catalog. Runners are same price, locks are a little higher. Well worth it if you haven't used them yet Leo. I think they were 0.50 more?
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:45 PM   #19
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


Unless I'm missing something I see no benefit to the 563 for an overlay kitchen which is 99.999 percent of the kitchens around here.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:55 PM   #20
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Re: Kitchen Cabinet Build


50Ę more???!!

Each???

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