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Grades Of Plywood ?

 
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:51 PM   #1
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Grades Of Plywood ?


OK guys how can you tell if you are getting quality hardwood plywood ? I called around to the local suppliers requesting American made Maple plywood. Finally called a local mill that supplies my hardwood and he tells me he can get it for me assuring me it is quality plywood. Got it home [18 sheets] and am noticing voids in the interior laminations, bump it wrong and the Maple veneer breaks or peels. So dissapointed with this stuff.
I can get away with it on this job but I would like to know how to avoid it next time. Worst part is I was quoted anywere from 57.00 to 95.00 a sheet and as near as I can tell it was all coming from the same place. 3/4" Maple both sides, North American made [US and Canada] also appears to be 7 plies.
Thanks,
Dave
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:56 PM   #2
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


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Old 01-29-2013, 10:58 PM   #3
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Try reading a little here, this may shed some light.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f13/ca...lywood-125860/
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:06 AM   #4
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Thanks for the link Kent. Just confused me more than I was.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:52 AM   #5
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


What grade face did they say you were getting?

What grade of core?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:11 PM   #6
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


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Originally Posted by Gus Dering View Post
What grade face did they say you were getting?

What grade of core?
There in lies the problem Gus, I am not versed in cabinet grade plywood. This is why I purchased it through the mill that I have make my moldings. He uses quite a bit of CG plywood so I just told him I didn't want any Chinese crap. That I wanted something decent as it is for cubbies/shelves/lockers and benches. It didn't have to be the best available but I didn't want junk. The stuff I have is a veneer core. The worst part is that half of the sheets are of an even cheaper made plywood as I got deeper into my stack this morning. argh !!! I believe the bottom 7 are a b-2. I got some cheap poplar from HD the other day that is better than this stuff.

Which is why I posted here, I know a lot of you use this stuff everyday. In reading the other post that Kent linked for me I am unsure of any way for me to be able to tell other than seeing it for my self. I just don't think that is possible here in western NY. Any hints on what to look for would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:48 PM   #7
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaBelkhuntin
OK guys how can you tell if you are getting quality hardwood plywood ? I called around to the local suppliers requesting American made Maple plywood. Finally called a local mill that supplies my hardwood and he tells me he can get it for me assuring me it is quality plywood. Got it home [18 sheets] and am noticing voids in the interior laminations, bump it wrong and the Maple veneer breaks or peels. So dissapointed with this stuff.
I can get away with it on this job but I would like to know how to avoid it next time. Worst part is I was quoted anywere from 57.00 to 95.00 a sheet and as near as I can tell it was all coming from the same place. 3/4" Maple both sides, North American made [US and Canada] also appears to be 7 plies.
Thanks,
Dave
I've had the same delamination problem with wood from my supplier. It's only with the imported stuff. I'll pay the extra 10 bucks a sheet to not buy crap wood.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:22 PM   #8
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


This is why I turned to Home Depot for my plywood. Local yards sucked. They don't know what the difference between cores are and if you start asking for specific cores and construction they look at your like your crazy. I get my Columbia Forrest stuff from Home Depot Special order...

http://www.contractortalk.com/f3/get...needed-127656/
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:06 PM   #9
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaBelkhuntin View Post
Thanks for the link Kent. Just confused me more than I was.
Oh sorry man, that was not my intent.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:51 PM   #10
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Where in wny are you
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:11 PM   #11
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


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Originally Posted by TBFGhost View Post
This is why I turned to Home Depot for my plywood. Local yards sucked. They don't know what the difference between cores are and if you start asking for specific cores and construction they look at your like your crazy. I get my Columbia Forrest stuff from Home Depot Special order...

http://www.contractortalk.com/f3/get...needed-127656/
I agree. I have no plywood supplier within an hour and a half drive. I went to the local yard one day needing 5 sheets of 1/4" mdf core maple. No clue what i was talking about. Flame away but ive done a handful of kitchens with the C-3 thats stock and its worked out great.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:31 PM   #12
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


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I agree. I have no plywood supplier within an hour and a half drive. I went to the local yard one day needing 5 sheets of 1/4" mdf core maple. No clue what i was talking about. Flame away but ive done a handful of kitchens with the C-3 thats stock and its worked out great.
I think you have to be careful these days and once you are happy with a supplier stick with them. I recently had an order of what they call natural birch or paint grade birch that was printed C3 but was absolutely fine. Usually it's B2 but I really didn't notice much difference. I would never have ordered it but I trust the supplier. A1 stuff I've never had any problems with.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:02 PM   #13
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


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Oh sorry man, that was not my intent.
That's OK, it is just the talk about these manufacturers marking this stuff any way the supply house wants makes it seem like it is hopeless because they can make it and grade it to what ever suits the supply house. Kinda like buying gas on the rez, it's marked 87 octane but it may be 75 or 80, nobody knows.

Can someone explain to me how the grading system for Cabinet plywood works and what each grade is supposed to be ie; good one side ? Educate me please. I understand the different cores, it is the veneer quality I don't understand. Flat sawn, rotary sawn A1 B2
I thought I used to get a 10 ply cabinet grade ply ?

Tylerwalker32 this stuff is North American made, I don't consider my neighbors to the north as a Foreign country, well only when It comes to hockey.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:24 AM   #14
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Just google plywood grades and you'll find a lot of information. But very basically, A through D is the face grade, with A being the best that you would use for something that is clear coated and C paint grade and D not something you'd want to use for any cabinetry at least.

1 through 4 is the reverse side grade, so 1 is the best, practically as good as an A face, 4 is rough as hell and not something you ever want visible.

As far as rotary cut, flat sawn and the rest, this is something better googled as there are a lot of good graphics that demonstrate the differences.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:13 PM   #15
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Good job clark.

Keeping with Clarks's extremly simple theme:

Rotary cut is when a log is placed on a "lathe" and a thin sheet is made

Plain Sliced is when thin layers are taken from a log just like a typ. piece of lumber. (except for 1/4 sawn) The sheet looks like it's made of glues up boards.

Describing core types is another chapter. Glue types is another. Place or origin is another (i.e "maple" on the west coast is not the same as maple on the east coast) thickness of veneer, grain and book matching are others.

learning about Sheetgoods is an education in it self.

The big box retailers have the thinnest veneers and most inconsist cores I've seen from any real suppliers.

Wurth Wood Group's website has nice examples of the types of sheetgoods available.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:11 PM   #16
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


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The big box retailers have the thinnest veneers and most inconsist cores I've seen from any real suppliers.
Except for the Home Depots here in NJ. All the ones around me (about 6 of them) now stock Oak, Maple and Birch in Columbia Forrest Purebond. Most stock the Oak and Birch in 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" and the Maple in 3/4". They are poplar cored and C3. Face Veneer is pretty generous for a $45 sheet of hardwood.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #17
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


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Except for the Home Depots here in NJ. All the ones around me (about 6 of them) now stock Oak, Maple and Birch in Columbia Forrest Purebond. Most stock the Oak and Birch in 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" and the Maple in 3/4". They are poplar cored and C3. Face Veneer is pretty generous for a $45 sheet of hardwood.
Here in VA, only oak, birch and something they call sandply, really nasty, dusty stuff to work with. I'll never use it again, very soft core, bad tearout and delaminates very easy. The veneer reminds me of Luan. I don't know the grade of the brich or oak maybe b2 at best. Compare the veneer thickness and core of 3/4 oak from HD to what you get at a cabinet supplier. There's no comparison. The veneer is almost twice as thick and the core is aspen instead of poplar. I think the big boxes are just buying a lessor grade from Columbia. I guess it's understandable, cabinet and furnature pros aren't going to be buying from them so selling "retail quality" makes sense. Most wont pay $50 - $60 for a sheet of plywood.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:27 PM   #18
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Kent I should have listened to you in the begining. I did a google search and ended up on the Columbia site for the different grades. http://columbiaforestproducts.com/Pr...ardwoodPlywood
Also a link to a core guide http://columbiaforestproducts.com/Co...Core_Guide.pdf

Thanks gang
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:12 AM   #19
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


Quote:
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Here in VA, only oak, birch and something they call sandply, really nasty, dusty stuff to work with. I'll never use it again, very soft core, bad tearout and delaminates very easy. The veneer reminds me of Luan. I don't know the grade of the brich or oak maybe b2 at best. Compare the veneer thickness and core of 3/4 oak from HD to what you get at a cabinet supplier. There's no comparison. The veneer is almost twice as thick and the core is aspen instead of poplar. I think the big boxes are just buying a lessor grade from Columbia. I guess it's understandable, cabinet and furnature pros aren't going to be buying from them so selling "retail quality" makes sense. Most wont pay $50 - $60 for a sheet of plywood.
Not sure what plywood your store is stocking but mine all have poplar cores. The veneer looks to be the same thickness I remember when i worked on projects where the sheet good came from a pretty large sheet good supplier, Atlantic Plywood.

This is the only problem I have had with the stock C3 Purebond from Home Depot. One sheet had large voids in it...CF said this was a defective sheet and gave me a voucher for a replacement.

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Old 02-03-2013, 09:55 AM   #20
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Re: Grades Of Plywood ?


It doesn't matter which manufacturer you want to talk about or what grade you are ordering, you will still run into defective sheets / units.

We just cut up 15 or so sheets of Columbia's two step JayCore C2 unfinished maple for another cabinetmaker. The surface was dotted with defects and voids so far from paint ready that several parts had to be re-cut. The entire lift was so bad that we thought he ordered some kind of seconds or something.

But if I was to point at any one manufacturer that has the most quality issues, I would point to Columbia.

Conversely, if I were to give a manufacturer the blue ribbon for the best overall product when they have their crap together, it would also be Columbia. Their new JayCore panel with that ultra-smooth face is a very nice panel. You have to pay for it though, in more than one way.

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