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-   -   Fine Finish w/o Festool (https://www.contractortalk.com/f13/fine-finish-w-o-festool-55472/)

basswood 03-14-2009 10:28 AM

Fine Finish w/o Festool
 
1 Attachment(s)
Festool makes fantastic tools with price tags you expect for the best. Festool is worthy of the attention it gets here and the devoted following is understandable. But...

For some, the cost/benefit analysis simply rules Festool out. I just posted in another thread, that you can buy a Makita corless 18v Li-ion set with a drill/driver, impact driver, cordless circ. saw, flashlight, charger and two batteries for about the same price as a Festool 12v C12 drill.

I am also glad Makita and Dewalt have track saws to compete with Festool.

Along similar lines, I've owned a Fein Multi-Master for years, but I'm also glad to see Rockwell and Dremel making similar tools, now that Fein's patent has run out.

My track saw is a Makita on an EZ guide rail. Nice to be able to use off the shelf blades at reasonable prices.

There is no way I can justify the price of the Kapex. I get great cuts with my 10" Hitachi slider and with a Chop Shop hood/ and my Fein Vac work is virtually dust free.

By avoiding the "Green KoolAid" I have been able to afford a Delta Unisaw Table Saw with a 50" Beisemeyer fence, a Jet Bandsaw, and a "sports car".

My priorities are such that I compromise some on tool quality. I buy good pro-grade tools, not Harbor Freight junk, but not Festool either.

Festool may make a better Jigsaw, but Bosch is good enough for me. Rotex sanders are great, but my Porter Cable sanders are pretty good too (especially with a Fein Vac).

I have many good routers already (PC, Bosch, Freud, Milwaukee). I do wish they offered the dust collection of Festool routers, but they work well and are paid for. I've heard the DeWalt plunge router offers good dust collection and I would likely buy that before I'd by a Festool.

I'm just too much of a tightwad to pay the Festool prices.

My portfolio shows that you can buy tools on a budget and produce good work and I just wanted to put another opinion out there--for what it is worth.

Of course, even my mid-life crisis "sports car" has only a 50 h.p. engine... but I got it for less than 3K, it gets 30 m.p.g. and it is actually fun to drive.

This illustrates my philosophy on tools... it ain't a Ferrari, but it suits me just fine:

tcleve4911 03-14-2009 10:57 AM

Nice post.
I didn't realize it was you until I read the whole thing.
Great points Mr. Bass.
Lazers and expensive setups and jigged sharpeners and construction calculators.

How was anything ever built before all this stuff?
Finish carpentry cannot be done well without a skilled craftsman behind the tools. Personally, I think a lot of the koolaid tools are for machinists minded carpenters and not the old timers like me that perform the same processes by using tried & true methods, jigs, & techniques.

Festool and Ferrari

Like the great pic of your Carmen Ghia, I have a 98 Toyota Celica GT that I love to cruise in. It's paid off and it's a fun car to drive.
Thanks Again

WarnerConstInc. 03-14-2009 11:03 AM

Agreed Bass!! Not everything they make is that much better than someone else's product. I dont think Festool's jig saws are worth it. I am not so sure about the smaller RO sanders but, having a rotex it would be silly to buy a PC sander (heard nothing but good) and have to buy 2 different kinds of paper.

I think the thing that got me is the fact of how portable they are and the dust collection.

I love my Bosch slider, dont want to spend 1300 yet on another saw.

Dewalt, Makita, Virtuex and several others now make a rail saw, so you have some different options.

The only reason to get a Festool TS is if you have or are planning to obtain a few more other items and want the rail saw to fit in with the rest of the system.

There is a manufactured housing company about 1 hour south of me that has been replacing thier other hand held power tools with Festool and has not had a warrenty claim in 4 years. That is something to think about.

I have a lot of other brands of tools, I also know I dont want to be tied down to any stationary machienery at this point in time.
No othe tool brand I have is as easy to cart around and set up quickly and accuratly.

Good words of advice Bass!!

basswood 03-14-2009 11:21 AM

I do appreciate quality tools, portability, and dust control.

Price is secondary, but a consideration, nonetheless. I don't try to push the issue too far. My customers want top quality work, so they have to pay for it... sorta like Festool (I like to think).

It is difficult to do the best work with poor quality tools, but I think you can do great work with good tools... without paying the premium for the absolute best of each tool category. In some cases, the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

Regards,

Bass

basswood 03-14-2009 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcleve4911 (Post 635737)
Nice post.
I didn't realize it was you until I read the whole thing.
Great points Mr. Bass.
Lazers and expensive setups and jigged sharpeners and construction calculators.

How was anything ever built before all this stuff?
Finish carpentry cannot be done well without a skilled craftsman behind the tools. Personally, I think a lot of the koolaid tools are for machinists minded carpenters and not the old timers like me that perform the same processes by using tried & true methods, jigs, & techniques.

Festool and Ferrari

Like the great pic of your Carmen Ghia, I have a 98 Toyota Celica GT that I love to cruise in. It's paid off and it's a fun car to drive.
Thanks Again

The Karmann Ghia is a '69-1/2... they changed the model in mid-year. Convertibles are rare, compared to coupes, and the half-year thing makes it rarer still. It is an Italian design (Ghia), like Ferrari, and the body is made by the same company that makes Porsche bodies (Karmann) and the workmanship is said to be comparable to Rolls Royce (if only the engine was by Porsche--but then I couldn't afford it)... but alas, it is a VW.

It is fun to drive though and simple enough I can tinker with it.;)

neolitic 03-14-2009 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. (Post 635742)
Agreed Bass!! Not everything they make is that much better than someone else's product. I dont think Festool's jig saws are worth it. I am not so sure about the smaller RO sanders but, having a rotex it would be silly to buy a PC sander (heard nothing but good) and have to buy 2 different kinds of paper.

I think the thing that got me is the fact of how portable they are and the dust collection.

I love my Bosch slider, dont want to spend 1300 yet on another saw.

Dewalt, Makita, Virtuex and several others now make a rail saw, so you have some different options.

The only reason to get a Festool TS is if you have or are planning to obtain a few more other items and want the rail saw to fit in with the rest of the system.

There is a manufactured housing company about 1 hour south of me that has been replacing thier other hand held power tools with Festool and has not had a warrenty claim in 4 years. That is something to think about.

I have a lot of other brands of tools, I also know I dont want to be tied down to any stationary machienery at this point in time.
No othe tool brand I have is as easy to cart around and set up quickly and accuratly.

Good words of advice Bass!!

Warner, quick, Edit the post!
The Green police will be at the
door to give you another transfusion.......:w00t:

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

neolitic 03-14-2009 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswood (Post 635759)
The Karmann Ghia is a '69-1/2... they changed the model in mid-year. Convertibles are rare, compared to coupes, and the half-year thing makes it rarer still. It is an Italian design (Ghia), like Ferrari, and the body is made by the same company that makes Porsche bodies (Karmann) and the workmanship is said to be comparable to Rolls Royce (if only the engine was by Porsche--but then I couldn't afford it)... but alas, it is a VW.

It is fun to drive though and simple enough I can tinker with it.;)

Best friend's wife (GF at the time) had
KG convertible with the optional
gas heater.
When it went out she borrowed my
Coleman catalytic heater.
One night she forgot to snuff it..........
toasted Karmann Ghia! :sad:
She then "upgraded" to a 914. :laughing:

OW! My thumb 03-14-2009 12:01 PM

Im on the same page Bass.

OW! My thumb 03-14-2009 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic (Post 635763)
Warner, quick, Edit the post!
The Green police will be at the
door to give you another transfusion.......:w00t:

:laughing::laughing::laughing:


Every time I see one of your posts, Its like reading a Haiku.

basswood 03-14-2009 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic (Post 635770)
Best friend's wife (GF at the time) had
KG convertible with the optional
gas heater.
When it went out she borrowed my
Coleman catalytic heater.
One night she forgot to snuff it..........
toasted Karmann Ghia! :sad:
She then "upgraded" to a 914. :laughing:

I have the gas heater... but I park it for the winter in MN to keep it out of the road salt. Bummer about that KG burnin' up... the 914 sounds nice though.:w00t:

basswood 03-14-2009 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OW! My thumb (Post 635780)
Im on the same page Bass.

I have no problem with those who buy Festool, for many, I imagine it pays them back. If I had a job where I knew the domino would pay for itself, I might spring for one.

I'd take a Festool in a heartbeat, if someone gave it to me... I just can't make myself pay their prices.

I might buy the green stuff on CL, at a discount, if I was confident that it was not stolen.

Just thinking out loud here.

All the best,

Bass

irockwithdirt 03-14-2009 02:35 PM

We sharing car pics?? Had to send my dodge to the dealer for some warranty work, so this was my work vehicle for about a week. :cheesygri

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2426/cimg0772.jpg

:laughing:

basswood 03-14-2009 02:44 PM

Nice "truck":laughing:

I sometimes take the KG to work... after I haul all my tools to the job with the work van.:jester:

Once I canoed to work. Had a job on the other side of the Mississippi... tools were all over there in WI, so I paddled to work.:w00t:

m1911 03-14-2009 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswood (Post 635824)
I have no problem with those who buy Festool, for many, I imagine it pays them back. If I had a job where I knew the domino would pay for itself, I might spring for one.

I'd take a Festool in a heartbeat, if someone gave it to me... I just can't make myself pay their prices.

I might buy the green stuff on CL, at a discount, if I was confident that it was not stolen.

Just thinking out loud here.

All the best,

Bass





Ahhhhh, a cheap bastard after my own heart! :laughing::laughing:

I too would like to partake in the fruits of Festool, but I get the job done with Bosch and Makita. After all, it's the final results that counts, and your work speaks for itself.

peace.

Five Star 03-14-2009 04:35 PM

i to agree that festools prices are alittle to steep!and yes we all managed for 20+ yrs producing quality work with contractor grade tools.

after seeing there full tool line up at a true woodworkers tool store about 25 miles from my house, i unfortunatly caught the fever :censored:!

now what i have been doing to justify my addiction,is selling off on craigslist all the tools i had for years laying around,and all those impulse buys from the depot.
and with the economy being slow ive been shopping on ebay and watching religously for festool.

alot of the stuff goes used the same price as new you have to be careful,but i scored a gently used ts75 with rail,extra blade,clamps, for well under $500,- stuff sold on CL, the saw cost me $200.

i know im an addict,and need counseling but once kool aid gets in the system its hard to quench the thust.

GOOD POST BASS,AND YOUR RIGHT

AND FOR YOU FESTOOL>>>>>DAMN YOU FESTOOL-DAMN YOU

neolitic 03-14-2009 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OW! My thumb (Post 635782)
Every time I see one of your posts, Its like reading a Haiku.

Think of me as your
carpentry zen master. :laughing::blink:

jhark123 03-14-2009 08:26 PM

Basswood, what chop saw hood are you using. If it is homemade would you post a pic? I just got a Fein vac on ebay for $125 : ) and I am looking to hook it up to my Makita slider.

Thanks,
Jason

basswood 03-14-2009 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhark123 (Post 636111)
Basswood, what chop saw hood are you using. If it is homemade would you post a pic? I just got a Fein vac on ebay for $125 : ) and I am looking to hook it up to my Makita slider.

Thanks,
Jason

Mine is the Chop Shop Hood:

http://woodworkers-hardware.amazonwe...source=froogle

Sooner Pesek 03-14-2009 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswood (Post 636132)



Hey Bass,

I checked out the link, it looks like the hood attaches to a rail behind the saw fence. It that part of the setup, or is it an optional mount?

Thanks,
Roger

basswood 03-14-2009 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooner Pesek (Post 636139)
Hey Bass,

I checked out the link, it looks like the hood attaches to a rail behind the saw fence. It that part of the setup, or is it an optional mount?

Thanks,
Roger

Does your saw have two holes behind the fence for hold downs? The hood is set up to mount using pins that fit in those holes. The hold down holes on my Hitachi are larger diameter than the pins... so there is some slop in the set up. Not a big deal, but I might do some re-rigging.


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