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Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.

 
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Old 11-13-2006, 02:20 AM   #1
 
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Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


We are on a job where we are removing some crown that was installed poorly. Beyond the various mismatched angles and so forth, is the fact that there was no cleat or fur strip behind the crown on walls that fell in the joist bay. This was about 6.5 inch tall crown and the fact that they essentially nailed into drywall only in the joist bays, led to the crown not hold after a few years.

We always run a ripped angle 2x4 fur strip or some sort of cleat on the walls that dont have ceiling joists to nail too, which almost always ends up being on two walls in the room. This does take time to do, but it gives a solid platform to nail too when we cant hit joists. Anyone else have another way or idea?

Anyone else do this with the cleats behind the crown? Ive taken out crown on different jobs/remodels and i almost never find anyone else doing this. I know some people say that caulk will "glue" it up the the ceiling, but Ive seen it seperate many times.

Opinions on the subject?
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:58 AM   #2
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Re: Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


I've had limited success with caulk in this situation as well. If you are'nt doing an extensive enough remodel to add the cleats behind the rock and float strips and re-tedxture paint etc. and obviously you aren't or would not have posted this, then you have three options and they all will work.
#1 use adhesive to install the crown and brace, from the floor, with 2 x 2s to key pressure points against the crown; common sense will tell you where they are. You need to take alot of floor space to do this because you need all the angle you can get. It does work though. Just don't apply so much pressure you cause a sheetrock failure at the cieling/wall seam.
#2 If you cant have those long braces sticking out from the wall, at these predetermined pressure points but directly in front of the nearest stud, along the wall on the floor, place a length of 2x2 to use as a fulcrum, and cut your braces to lenght to place pressure against the adhesive-laden crown by screwing a sufficient legnth fastener into a stud, close to the top of the brace near the crown. be careful. Done coreectly this method can place an extreme amount of pressure against the crown.
#3 Best method. Temporarily affix your crown into place. Drill pilot holes in key places (indents, studs) remove crown and install sheetrock fasteners. Countersink screws into crown and spackle. Fini!

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Old 11-13-2006, 10:42 PM   #3
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Re: Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


I dont have a problem with doing it, but getting the customer to pay for additional trim work that they cant see is where in the problem lies. Also if you cross your nails two in the same area, it eleminates the seperation from the ceiling. also caulking works deceint as an adhesive.
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:52 PM   #4
 
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Re: Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


Good input guys. I dont mind doing the external cleats, just liked to see what others do. On smaller trim Ill do it without the cleats or just a few spaced out. But on the heavy tall crown stuff its protocol.

We mark all studs/joists and test at least 50% of them to be sure its a stud or joist. Especially on remodels where we were not the GC on the addition/build, as we dont know how the walls were layed out. We run into houses all the time were 16 oc doesnt mean OC but maybe an inch off
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Old 11-14-2006, 05:04 PM   #5
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Re: Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


I love to know that I have wood , but like King of Crown says, no one wants to pay. Where the crown is perpendicular to floor joits, I nail into them. Where it is parallel I settle for using 2 1/2 nails, and shooting them in pairs to form an "X" into the sheetrock. It is a few extra holes for the painter, but works pretty good. I tried glueing with a quality adhesive caulking in the past, but it just wasn't worth the mess to me.
Also have your painter use a top grade of caulking on big mouldings. The "painters" grade stuff just cannot handle the amount of seasonal movement in a big moulding.
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:31 PM   #6
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Re: Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


I've used the crisscross nail pattern with adhesive sometimes and caulk other times. I have'nt had any call backs, ever, over this issue, so I think it works fine.

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Old 11-15-2006, 12:51 AM   #7
 
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Re: Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


So several of ya'll do the x nail as well. I do x nail on small runs parallel to the joists as opposed to the cleats. On long runs, nail the cleats in as i know its rock solid. But hearing that others have run just x nailing with no call backs in food for thought. Those of you that do that, how long are the crown runs and average height?
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Old 11-15-2006, 08:24 PM   #8
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Re: Crown Moulding In Joist Bays, Opinions.


I know that I've done alot of 16' runs with 3 1/4'' crown using the 'x' method w/ adhesive and-or caulk. If the crown sags at the ceiling or feels like I'm fighting it, then I do add the angled blocking behind it.

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