Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum (https://www.contractortalk.com/forum.php)
-   Finish Carpentry (https://www.contractortalk.com/f13/)
-   -   Crown moulding installation (https://www.contractortalk.com/f13/crown-moulding-installation-171082/)

Xtrememtnbiker 02-13-2015 08:56 PM

Crown moulding installation
 
3 Attachment(s)
So I did this kitchen today. The backing was already installed so it was just cutting and installing the two piece crown. It was pre finished cabinet crown.

It took me 6 hours working almost entirely solo. Is that a long time compared to what it should take? I don't do cabinet crown a lot so I'm sure I'm slower at it than some guys.

Also, what's the best way to scribe the crown when it's two different profiles? I would cut a beveled miter on the piece to removed as much as I could and then just held it up and drew the profile of the wall crown on it. It took anywhere from I'd say 10 to 20 times of cutting/scribing to get it to fit.

Attachment 144018
Attachment 144026Attachment 144034

Robie 02-13-2015 09:08 PM

I would have been there most of the day also...set-up...breakdown. Looks good, that's the main thing.

Aaron Berk 02-14-2015 12:47 AM

i would have planned for 4, and budgeted for 6.
I think you did fine.

I use one of those needle profile gauges, then fine tune it from there.
That means I do basically the same as you. mark, cut, test, then repeat as necessary.

Joining_heads 02-14-2015 12:54 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Your install looks great. I run into the crown situation you had frequently so I came up with a quick solution because I'm not fond of pendants.

My trick involves getting a template of the existing crown traced onto a peice of paper, cutting that out, then projecting ( using a flashlight) that profile onto the scribe piece. I figured this out a few years back and have done it that way ever since.

To get the template you can either use a scrap peice of crown or slip paper behind a butt to wall that exists since you are overlapping.... Maybe sometime ill write this whole thing up with photos so it makes sense.

Here I had a traditional preprime I needed to meet with a shaker cherry that was already up. I had to do this 8 times on this particular job.

m1911 02-14-2015 12:58 AM

Yeah, near a full day sounds about right, working alone, by the time you figure setup and clean up time. At least it was paint grade, so there's room for a bit of caulk.

Xtrememtnbiker 02-14-2015 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m1911 (Post 2472626)
Yeah, near a full day sounds about right, working alone, by the time you figure setup and clean up time. At least it was paint grade, so there's room for a bit of caulk.


Yeah. The profile on the cabinet crown was awful. I'm not very practiced yet with scribing. I can cope similar pieces together pretty well. I think I was taking at least 20 minutes per inside corner. Realizing it was going to be 6:00 or 7:00 when I was done, I caulked it when I got down to 1/32 gap.

I wish we got to do it more cause it was fun. I just felt like I was slow. So did my Dad. Lol. He called at 5:15 and said "I assume you're at home?" Nope... Still here for a couple hours.

I think we need to bid more for cabinet crown. Especially when their is room crown to deal with.

overanalyze 02-14-2015 09:42 AM

Sounds about right to me. Up and down on a drywall box or a 4' ladder, back and forth to the saw...6 hours isn't bad. Looks great!

Tom M 02-14-2015 10:16 AM

I think you did good too. My time would be the same. You have to take your time with this type of work. You don't want to be bumping your tools scratching new cabinets.

Roofcheck 02-14-2015 11:33 AM

How do these two get finished? Paint against stain looks odd to me, equally odd to blocks but my preferred method.

Xtrememtnbiker 02-14-2015 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roofcheck (Post 2474242)
How do these two get finished? Paint against stain looks odd to me, equally odd to blocks but my preferred method.


It's pre finished cabinet crown and painted room crown. Both white but different shades. Client is painting on this job.

What is the general way people handle the differing profiles? I ended up reading some last night and saw the idea of crown blocks. Most everybody says use the same crown in the room and in the cabinets. I guess if it's custom cabinets that works as you can finish the crown to match the cabinets and paint it for the room. But this is pre finished cabinet crown that's of course very pricey compared to PFJ pine crown and backer.

CarpenterSFO 02-14-2015 12:06 PM

You did fine and will get faster with practice.

Did you look for a crown on the cabinets that would match the crown on the room? or quote replacing the crown throughout the room?

You could also replace the two internal crown runs on the walls with the crown on the cabinet and get rid of 4 of the difficult copes. You can argue the aesthetic case either way.

But again, you'll get faster as you develop your personal bag of tricks.

Roofcheck 02-14-2015 12:07 PM

Works great for white on white but white trim on stain grade cabinets look funny.

Xtrememtnbiker 02-14-2015 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO (Post 2474410)
You did fine, and will get faster with practice. If it was really 10 or 20 cuts and scribes per cut, then you should be able to cut that down quite a bit, scribing very carefully with a compass rather than free-hand drawing.



What tools are you using to cope? Grinders, sanders, files, etc., can make it go much faster. Back cut really hard with a grinder or sander, then do the adjustments to the cope more easily.



Did you look for a crown on the cabinets that would match the crown on the room? or quote replacing the crown throughout the room? Even in a budget situation you should quote the option if you can.



You could also replace the two internal crown runs on the walls with the crown on the cabinet and get rid of 4 of the difficult copes. You can argue the aesthetic case either way.



But again, you'll get faster as you develop your personal bag of tricks.


It really was at least 10 per piece I'm sure. Usually when it's the same profile I'm one to two tries per piece.

I have the fast cap scribe which I don't think would have worked well for that profiled of a piece. Also didn't have a pencil that worked in it with me. I should get a compass.

I was using a jigsaw without a coping foot (don't own one yet) and the RAS.

The crown was $120 per 8' piece. That's a massive cost difference to PFJ pine crown from HD. This was a job we were reusing trim in cause of budget concerns.

I don't know if we are able to get the crown in the same profile as the 3 1/2" crown that was in the room. I would guess not though.

The only wall run inside the cabinets was above the sink. We didn't run crown above the range because we tiled to the ceiling. I called a buddy who is a designer at a high end kitchen company here. He said they try to never run the cabinet crown on the wall. And I agree, I didn't like that idea for aesthetics. He said either wall crown, or a valence between cabinets with the cabinet crown going across. Often times with a cabinet finish soffit with 4" cans over the sink.

So I had 4 on this job, 2 at the sink, and the 2 at the ends of the cabinets. I imagine I spent at least 30 mins per piece with those 4 pieces.

I've done very little pre finished crown work and even less joining to other profiles. I know I'll get better. I was just a bit frustrated at the end of the day cause I felt like it took too long and the results weren't as good as I would have liked.

Tom M 02-14-2015 12:42 PM

Travis I have had the coping foot for quite some time. I personally never found it to be as great as hyped. How did the RAS work out? That thing looks like a beast to do finess work. I wonder if slower smaller machine would be more controllable.

WarnerConstInc. 02-14-2015 01:07 PM

I keep a coping foot on one jigsaw all the time.

You need to make a jig to hold the crown steady, in position when you use it. David Collins recommends this right on his website.

For raw wood i have to trace the edge of the profile so i can see the profile line.

Coping foot, rat tail file and a piece of sand paper.

The festool ras115 is super easy to control. Variable speed, 4 1/2" disc.

I dont use it for coping mouldings (jig saw, file, sandpaper), but do use it to fit everything else.

Probably my favorite Festool sander.

Xtrememtnbiker 02-14-2015 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom M (Post 2474594)
Travis I have had the coping foot for quite some time. I personally never found it to be as great as hyped. How did the RAS work out? That thing looks like a beast to do finess work. I wonder if slower smaller machine would be more controllable.


The RAS is awesome. I used it on speed 5 out of 6 yesterday. You grind away a lot of material and then slow down and fine tune.

Did you use the jig with the coping foot? I read an article that I think was by Gary Katz talking about not being impressed with it at first. He said he called David and told him and David asked if he was using the jig like he said. Gary said he wasn't. Then he started using it and like the foot much better.

Xtrememtnbiker 02-14-2015 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. (Post 2474658)
I keep a coping foot on one jigsaw all the time.

You need to make a jig to hold the crown steady, in position when you use it. David Collins recommends this right on his website.

For raw wood i have to trace the edge of the profile so i can see the profile line.

Coping foot, rat tail file and a piece of sand paper.

The festool ras115 is super easy to control. Variable speed, 4 1/2" disc.

I dont use it for coping mouldings (jig saw, file, sandpaper), but do use it to fit everything else.

Probably my favorite Festool sander.


Only have one jigsaw. Dewalt 18v. I would like to get the carvex soon and have a coping foot for it. What blades work well with the carvex for coping?

How do you cope different crown to each other? Or do you just make all the crown yourself? :)

I'm sure having the right tools for the job will help. Not that the RAS doesn't work for coping but I really think a coping foot will be nice.

WarnerConstInc. 02-14-2015 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xtrememtnbiker (Post 2474754)
Only have one jigsaw. Dewalt 18v. I would like to get the carvex soon and have a coping foot for it. What blades work well with the carvex for coping?

How do you cope different crown to each other? Or do you just make all the crown yourself? :)

I'm sure having the right tools for the job will help. Not that the RAS doesn't work for coping but I really think a coping foot will be nice.

I have the coping foot on my old bosch and cordless carvex. I use to try and get the blades collins recommended, but could never find them.

I use scribes and one of those metal pin transfer things.

Tom M 02-14-2015 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xtrememtnbiker (Post 2474714)
Did you use the jig with the coping foot? I DO/didI read an article that I think was by Gary Katz talking about not being impressed with it at first. He said he called David and told him and David asked if he was using the jig like he said. Gary said he wasn't. Then he started using it and like the foot much better.

Maybe I will revisit it. I mostly work with soft wood where a jigsaw is not that much help and cabinet crown I never cope I miter.

Good heads up on the RAS. I been looking closer at thier sanders and if money were no object.....The RAS looked like one of the most useful

Xtrememtnbiker 02-14-2015 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. (Post 2474826)
I have the coping foot on my old bosch and cordless carvex. I use to try and get the blades collins recommended, but could never find them.



I use scribes and one of those metal pin transfer things.


So you don't use the ones Collins recommends... Which ones do you use?

The metal pin thing is a great idea. Wish I knew that yesterday...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.