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Old 07-18-2019, 09:02 PM   #21
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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If I had an owner who absolutely insisted on having it all glued I would do the following. Selection of wood is the absolute here. It all has to be close in moisture content from the beginning.

1) select wood that has little to no grain run out, or buy it wide and rip it so there is no grain run out.

2) make a tenon out of the end grain on the end of the glue up. And cut mortise to fit in the end board.

3) rub all the end grains with acetone and then coat with a thin coat of epoxy

4) sand the end grains with 120

5) attach breadboard with a flexible epoxy and an added silica (g-flex with silica strands works well)

6) absolutely no mechanical fasteners within six inches of the end of the top. And preferably floating machanical fasteners throughout the top.

The key is to reduce the moisture loss/gain in the glue up. That's what sealing the ends helps with. The other thing that is of utmost importance is allowing the wood to move together. As long as it's a really solid connection, and you have the end grains sealed on the end board, it will move together. The biggest deal isnt glue up with as much as it is the end board width.

The T/R percentage is a big factor and if you're using a really wide end board you are going to have more movement opposite the glue up, which will promote the splitting. If however, everything can move at once it SHOULD stay together.

Also I would not seal the bottom side as that could create a serious desire for cupping and split the glue up.

I've done it this way a few times and it seems to be working. I did some similar on outdoor stuff and it still hasn't split or opened up. It can be done, it just has to be done with forethought and even then isnt fool proof. You have to know the wood your working with pretty well.

You are saying, the width of the end board determines the movement of the glued-up field boards?
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:04 PM   #22
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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Pretty sure your method wasn't done.



In fact...I'm sure of it.


What did your friend do?

Pics would help.

Maybe we can steer him in the right direction.


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Old 07-18-2019, 09:09 PM   #23
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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What did your friend do?

Pics would help.

Maybe we can steer him in the right direction.


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I never said he was my friend.

Knowing him, there is no "steering in the right direction"

He is always right. It's an exercise in futility to attempt.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:15 PM   #24
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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I never said he was my friend.



Knowing him, there is no "steering in the right direction"



He is always right. It's an exercise in futility to attempt.


So...no pics?

No details?

Just...4x8x2

Ill need more to help him.


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Old 07-18-2019, 09:17 PM   #25
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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So...no pics?

No details?

Just...4x8x2

Ill need more to help him.


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I have the text messages of the entire discussion if that would help.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:34 PM   #26
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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So...no pics?

No details?

Just...4’x8’x2”

I’ll need more to help him.

There are lots of details contained in those if you'd like to peruse them.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:13 PM   #27
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


I'd probably punt this one, just make sure there wasn't residual stresses from the kiln. Then do the breadboard and coat the whole thing all sides with poly or epoxy or any good vapor barrier.

Glue blocks to the underside for mounting.. .
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:24 PM   #28
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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I'd probably punt this one, just make sure there wasn't residual stresses from the kiln. Then do the breadboard and coat the whole thing all sides with poly or epoxy or any good vapor barrier.

Glue blocks to the underside for mounting.. .
Residual stresses from the kiln.

How is that determined?
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:10 PM   #29
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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Residual stresses from the kiln.

How is that determined?
Do a bunch of parallel cuts lengthwise into the end of a board. They may curl out, or curl in if the kiln wasn't run correctly. They should stay parallel to each other.

Kiln stresses can result in end cracking of boards just sitting around.

There is a final stress relief step using steam to get even moisture content through the board. Kiln drying leaves the outside dryer than the inside. Not enough steam, and the outside us still too dry. The outside is in tension, while the inside is compressed. Too much steam, and the outside us in compression and the inside us in tension. I usually do ~4" cuts about 3/16" apart. Start from an outside edge, and you'll know after a few cuts.
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:17 PM   #30
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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Do a bunch of parallel cuts lengthwise into the end of a board. They may curl out, or curl in if the kiln wasn't run correctly. They should stay parallel to each other.

Kiln stresses can result in end cracking of boards just sitting around.

There is a final stress relief step using steam to get even moisture content through the board. Kiln drying leaves the outside dryer than the inside. Not enough steam, and the outside us still too dry. The outside is in tension, while the inside is compressed. Too much steam, and the outside us in compression and the inside us in tension. I usually do ~4" cuts about 3/16" apart. Start from an outside edge, and you'll know after a few cuts.
Cool.

I'm going to stick to using my tried and true method of a dovetail slot in my end board and a dovetail male in my field. I may decide on a simple tongue and groove...but both methods will be pinned with a dowel and elongated hole to both keep the joint tight and to allow for movement.

But that just me.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:28 AM   #31
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


You know it works, it's proven to last.

BTW, when I said I'd probably punt, I was talking about figuring out the best chance of gluing it up solid and having it not split.

You can argue flitch sawn may not split in this situation as easily as quarter sawn, for instance.

Last edited by hdavis; 07-19-2019 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:56 AM   #32
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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You can argue flitch sawn may not split in this situation as easily as quarter sawn, for instance.
I wouldnt make that a definitive statement. Species would play a major role. Flat sawn wood tends to have more grain run out which in my opinion would be one of the biggest factors on something like this.

It all depends, some people are just adamant things are tight all the way around. It's fine but it's going to cost them. I have a bunch of mitered corners on some Ipe I went to go see last week, still tight as the day I made them 7 years ago. Just gotta charge for it and put it as a feather in your cap for when someone else wants it done.

First time round it's not a huge money maker but you have to charge for the time spent learning how to do it. Second time though, you have a process and can essentially double the profit. It's an investment in yourself.
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:33 AM   #33
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


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I wouldnt make that a definitive statement. Species would play a major role. Flat sawn wood tends to have more grain run out which in my opinion would be one of the biggest factors on something like this.
In the end, it's plastic deformation limits in compression vs splitting under tension. Like I said, I don't know of a database that has the information needed.

Last edited by hdavis; 07-19-2019 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:50 AM   #34
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Re: Breadboard Ends...


If you know what is going to take the first time around why would you need to leave anything on the table?


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