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The Tragedy Of Suburbia

 
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:43 PM   #101
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


I'am very sure that the sociologists have their own inter active site. I 'am willing to bet they have a thread titled THE LARGER TRAGEDY OF THE INNER CITIES.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:58 PM   #102
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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When I had kids in school, school choice was the most important location factor.
I live in one lacal for 20 for that reason and now moved to my current for the same reason. My kids walk to school.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #103
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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Pretty tough to get anywhere when you keep ignoring the points and reframe to suit yourself.
Which point have I ignored?
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:56 PM   #104
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


If you don't like it where you live move somewhere where you like it
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:09 PM   #105
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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If you don't like it where you live move somewhere where you like it
I can't argue with that.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:54 AM   #106
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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I can't argue with that.
I can.

It's not about liking where one lives. It's about society as a whole reevaluating the path we're on when it comes to buildings & community.

It's about durability.

It's about sustainability.

It's about community.

It's about realizing there may be better alternatives to those we create within our comfort zones.

It's about being students.

It's about being teachers.

It's about knowing the difference between right & wrong in some cases.

It's about respecting history.

It's about acknowledging the fact we don't know it all & those with dissenting views & opinions may in fact be onto something.

It's about respect.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:48 AM   #107
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


well..i'm for that stuff
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:49 AM   #108
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


Here are a few imho, flawed premises that come to my mind at this moment. 1) If i push hard enough against unwanted things,they will go away 2)With enough effort,or hard work, I can accomplish anything. 3) To be in harmony with another,we have to want and believe the same things. 4)There is a finite container of resources that we are all dipping into wit h our requests. 4) THERE ARE RIGHT WAYS AND WRONG WAYS TO LIVE. 5) By gathering data about the manifestations or results of the way the people of the earth have lived and are living, we can effectively sort them into absolute piles of right and wrong. 6) By ferreting out the undesirable elements in our society, we can eliminate them. 7) If we do not continue to beat the drum of our history we are destined to make the same mistakes.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #109
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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Here are a few imho, flawed premises that come to my mind at this moment. 1) If i push hard enough against unwanted things,they will go away 2)With enough effort,or hard work, I can accomplish anything. 3) To be in harmony with another,we have to want and believe the same things. 4)There is a finite container of resources that we are all dipping into wit h our requests. 4) THERE ARE RIGHT WAYS AND WRONG WAYS TO LIVE. 5) By gathering data about the manifestations or results of the way the people of the earth have lived and are living, we can effectively sort them into absolute piles of right and wrong. 6) By ferreting out the undesirable elements in our society, we can eliminate them. 7) If we do not continue to beat the drum of our history we are destined to make the same mistakes.
This list makes it sound as everyone is the same, but we are not! If we were we ( the white settlers) would not had to kill off and herd up and put on reservations the people that were here before us. Now our country is still being built by people from all over the world. Who is to say what is right and wrong?
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:46 PM   #110
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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Originally Posted by fjn View Post
Here are a few imho, flawed premises that come to my mind at this moment.

1) If i push hard enough against unwanted things,they will go away 2)With enough effort,or hard work, I can accomplish anything.
3) To be in harmony with another,we have to want and believe the same things.
4)There is a finite container of resources that we are all dipping into wit h our requests.
4) THERE ARE RIGHT WAYS AND WRONG WAYS TO LIVE.
5) By gathering data about the manifestations or results of the way the people of the earth have lived and are living, we can effectively sort them into absolute piles of right and wrong.
6) By ferreting out the undesirable elements in our society, we can eliminate them.
7) If we do not continue to beat the drum of our history we are destined to make the same mistakes.
Please! Let the "enter" button be your friend. It will make it easier to count. You have 2 #4's...
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:52 PM   #111
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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Originally Posted by Dirtywhiteboy View Post
This list makes it sound as everyone is the same, but we are not! If we were we ( the white settlers) would not had to kill off and herd up and put on reservations the people that were here before us. Now our country is still being built by people from all over the world. Who is to say what is right and wrong?
I'd say it's wrong when it takes up 20 acres and it's empty and it's falling apart.

I'd say everyone else thinks so too or they would still be shopping there.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:59 PM   #112
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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I'd say it's wrong when it takes up 20 acres and it's empty and it's falling apart.

I'd say everyone else thinks so too or they would still be shopping there.
So what would like to do about it
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:02 PM   #113
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


Though I haven't looked deeply into it, I don't think those huge deserted buildings are the developers' fault. Just as one for instance, for a long time I've seen Lowe's build a store, use it for a few years, and then build a new one less than a mile away. The old store usually sits empty for at least a few years until someone else moves in, or it is razed.

I've always assumed they find it advantageous to do that primarily for tax reasons.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:12 PM   #114
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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oahu, worst traffic in the US!

it does suck...
I'm just glad to not be in L.A. anymore...it was pretty bad on Oahu, but this takes the cake...
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:26 PM   #115
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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I'm just glad to not be in L.A. anymore...it was pretty bad on Oahu, but this takes the cake...

Mostly green light poles and a few red ones too
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:34 PM   #116
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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I can.

It's not about liking where one lives. It's about society as a whole reevaluating the path we're on when it comes to buildings & community.

It's about durability.

It's about sustainability.

It's about community.

It's about realizing there may be better alternatives to those we create within our comfort zones.

It's about being students.

It's about being teachers.

It's about knowing the difference between right & wrong in some cases.

It's about respecting history.

It's about acknowledging the fact we don't know it all & those with dissenting views & opinions may in fact be onto something.

It's about respect.
It's about central planning being dictated by a central authority and we all know what that means.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:04 PM   #117
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


Visited a nice new-urban style neighborhood this past weekend.

Up the Allegheny river from Pittsburgh lies the riverfront town of Oakmont. Oakmont has a well-known golf course if you play golf, the Oakmont Country Club, where a number of PGA tournaments have been held. Its little downtown lies on both sides of the single-line train track that runs parallel to the river.

Oakmont, like most all the towns along the Allegheny near Pittsburgh, had a riverfront mill, and this residential development is on the site of that mill. The developers got lucky. Most all the riverfront mill towns look shabby and run down, and are full of bad housing and bad commercial buildings. Not so in Oakmont, which flourished as sort of a vacation destination in the late 1800s. Edgewater Steel, which had the mill there, came late to the party.

The riverfront site of the mill, now housing, is further enhanced by having some towering bluffs across the river, and practically no buildings are there to spoil the riparian view.

So this development, done by two separate developers, the first on half built-out, the second one just in infrastructure dig stage, has the view, the riverfront, the little downtown just a short walk away, and easy access to downtown Pittsburgh. Plus, easy access to the PA toll road, E-W I-76, just across the river.

Bars, restaurants, a really good bakery with indoor and outdoor seating, a library, hardware store, and more, within a half-mile walk along city sidewalks. A one-screen art-house movie theater is there.

The first phase was nicely done, but sits above a bank on the river. The second phase sits on an adjacent piece with topo such that it will have a small marina center with docks and a riverfront restaurant and bar. This phase will be more to the new-urban pattern with front porches quite near the sidewalks, areas of storefront shops with loft-type units above, some high end riverfront single family detached houses with nice upper decks for river viewing, and more.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:22 AM   #118
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


New Urbanist developments made their debut around 1980 with the inception of Sea Side in the panhandle of Florida. From that point forward,they started to catch on with a certain amount of regularity. The disconnect of suburbia was beginning to be felt and people were anxious to have a replacement.


With that said,I have not been to every TND as they are called. I have been to a fair representation in various states. The states are Il.In. Ga.Fl. Mo. Md.Ms. and possibly one or two additional ones. It seems to me that there is one common thread that links all such developments. They all seem forced,unnatural and resemble a theme park. Where they fall short in my mind;they all make an attempt at nostalgia and want to emulate a by gone era. While doing this ,instead of building solid,durable buildings like their predecessors,they are the same tacky construction in suburbia just repackaged with a slightly different spin on it.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:45 PM   #119
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


Jason Whipple,

thanks for starting this thread.

It was good to see that there are a number of kindred spirits posting here.
Best wishes all,
stephen
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Old 07-10-2014, 08:06 PM   #120
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Re: The Tragedy Of Suburbia


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Seriously, Tom. Look around at many of the buildings that were built in this country prior to the war. Even the most modest ones often had nice little touches that created character.
Y'all know I truly LOVE old houses and all manner of historic architecture, but I can tell you - we built some housing during both World Wars (1917/1918 and 1942-1945) that was JUNK.

Nothing endearing OR enduring about it.

During WW1, DuPont built huge munition plants in Richmond, Hopewell and Penniman Virginia and DuPont built thousands of single family homes at these plants DESIGNED to last "less than ten years."

These houses had Ruberoid Siding (which was tarpaper impregnated with asbestos) and the interiors had "Beaverboard" (a wood pulp wallboard product).

Richmond and Hopewell and Norfolk still have many of these old "temporary" houses. (The Penniman houses were moved to Norfolk after the war.)

They really were junk, and the only reason they've endured for all these years is that they've been substantially rebuilt through the intervening decades.

There were THOUSANDS of these "six room bungalows" built throughout the country at DuPont munition plants, and they were the cheapest way to cover air.



Cheap, and ugly with tar-paper siding.



In some communities (such as Sandston, Virginia), the six-room bungalows are still standing upright (after substantial renovation).




Ruberoid Siding, in all its ugliness:


PS. I am familiar with Kunstler and he makes some good points, but he also comes across as a nut.

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