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Load Transfer Help Requested

 
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:59 AM   #1
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Load Transfer Help Requested


Acting as a designer of a two story home on a crawl space, a question has come to mind.
I can't find anything in the IRC 2012 that address this.
In my experience the first floor perpendicular(center of home) walls have very seldom lined up with girder system at foundation.
Often I see where the second story perpendicular (center of home) walls will basically line up with the first floor walls. (I see where it states to not be off more than one member thickness in parallel walls).
The IRCR502.5(1) table, uses variables such as "Roof, ceiling and one clear floor span" etc. for girder spans.
But the floor joist tables do not differentiate that criteria.
Does anyone know why this doesn't seem to matter at the first floor level but very often are lined up at the second floor level?
Or, am I missing something?
Thanks,
Gary
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:09 AM   #2
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


I tried answering but gave up as I am just not understanding the question.

Sorry.

Andy.

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Old 09-05-2015, 10:10 AM   #3
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


I was hoping that Andy would have the answer.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:13 AM   #4
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
I tried answering but gave up as I am just not understanding the question.

Sorry.

Andy.
In the IRC, it appears that second story walls need to be aligned directly over first story walls, but first story walls don't need to be aligned directly over beams below the joists. Is that true, and why?

[I think, or thought, that was the question.]
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:20 PM   #5
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
In the IRC, it appears that second story walls need to be aligned directly over first story walls, but first story walls don't need to be aligned directly over beams below the joists. Is that true, and why?
It appears that first and second story center walls USUALLY are stacked upon one another. Do you all agree?
It appears that these walls DON'T HAVE TO BE directly over a girder system. Do you all agree?
In Table R502.5(1)-it asks how many center and what kind of center walls are to be included? Do you all agree?
So my question, is: What governs wheather you have to stack walls and if you don't, what governs what size joists and/or other criteria?
I just never saw it in the IRC. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Gary
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:57 PM   #6
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Bearing walls stack on bearing walls/girders in my experience. Occasional spans on I joist are sufficient sometimes offset from bearing.
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Old 09-05-2015, 03:04 PM   #7
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


In my experience they stack or they're engineered in new homes.
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Old 09-05-2015, 03:16 PM   #8
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Read further down R602.3.3 Bearing studs.
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Old 09-05-2015, 03:22 PM   #9
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


I have the 2009 book but if you read the whole section it pretty much boils down to always line up bearing walls and girders. Specifically, R502.4 excerpt: Bearing partitions perpendicular to joists shall not be
offset from supporting girders, walls or partitions more than
the joist depth unless such joists are of sufficient size to carry
the additional load"
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:39 PM   #10
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden view View Post
I have the 2009 book but if you read the whole section it pretty much boils down to always line up bearing walls and girders. Specifically, R502.4 excerpt: Bearing partitions perpendicular to joists shall not be
offset from supporting girders, walls or partitions more than
the joist depth unless such joists are of sufficient size to carry
the additional load"





That is the way I have interpreted the code for the last 41 years.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:44 PM   #11
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Besides, common sense (maybe) and building science (definitely) tells us to line things up when you're using span tables that only account for regular live loads.

It's not that difficult to engineer things otherwise, as long as you do just that- engineer them.
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Old 09-08-2015, 12:24 PM   #12
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Yes, R301.1, pretty much says: everything has to be lined up.
I think I got confused from looking an someone else’s plans where nothing lined up. Then I realized TJIs were being used.
I had never realized that using these new components that through calculations you can also put loads midspan. Along with many other things!
Learn something new every day
Thanks everyone!
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:50 PM   #13
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


TGIs are not magic though. Your key word "through calculations" is important.
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:03 PM   #14
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Thanks to the other posters I think I understand what the question is now and yes, you can off-set the bearing surface of one floor to another, even for braced wall lines.
Code does make allowances for this but your local Building Official may not.

Andy.
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Old 09-08-2015, 05:07 PM   #15
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


I was thinking about those 60s split levels with the cantilevered livingrooms that jut out about 2 feet on the front of the house. Those aren't lined up.
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Old 09-08-2015, 05:28 PM   #16
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylHanger View Post
I was thinking about those 60s split levels with the cantilevered livingrooms that jut out about 2 feet on the front of the house. Those aren't lined up.
Yes, but the IRC addresses cantilevers.
I really like the "Engineered” system because it will allow almost any floor plan imaginable.
And the lumber companies have engineers on staff to lay it out. I always thought only so plumbing doesn’t interfere, but now I see there can be a lot more to it.
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Old 09-08-2015, 06:22 PM   #17
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylHanger View Post
I was thinking about those 60s split levels with the cantilevered livingrooms that jut out about 2 feet on the front of the house. Those aren't lined up.



I was thinking of those my self. I would say that probably not all were built to code then and possibly most may not meet today's standards.


Here is a chart that weighs in on that topic.


http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...2_5_par017.htm
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Old 09-08-2015, 07:38 PM   #18
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


glkirk: Design from the roof down for structure, Why aren't the new beams lining up with the new walls above?

Design in some excess capacity, don't minimize every structural dimension.

At least you've reached the point of wisdom of knowing you don't know...

I'd suggest a couple of sophomore level engineering texts, and letting a pro review your plans for soundness.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:37 PM   #19
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


I would be happy to let anyone see them. Just get me your email addy.
I am always open to constructive criticism.
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Old 09-08-2015, 10:52 PM   #20
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Re: Load Transfer Help Requested


I would like to see them.

I will PM you.

Andy.

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