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Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?

 
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:26 PM   #21
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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But like I have been saying if it really is about protecting the baby's/kids then why are parents not having to follow the rule!
Let me see if I can restrain myself to little tiny words.

Dads and Moms do maybe 5% of such work.
That leaves 95% of it being done by grunts like us.

The risk, compared to all other danger to tykes, is maybe .1%.

That means Mommy & Daddy's share is .005%.
Grunt share is .095%

Mommy & Daddy have many, many other things to worry about that are much more likely.

Grunt doesn't, as far as kids are concerned.

It's up to grunt.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:36 PM   #22
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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It's a wonder we survived as a species. Humans are pretty tough and resiliant.



I'm betting he was as tough as nails.
and died at the ripe old age of 28
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:42 AM   #23
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
Let me see if I can restrain myself to little tiny words.

Dads and Moms do maybe 5% of such work.
That leaves 95% of it being done by grunts like us.

The risk, compared to all other danger to tykes, is maybe .1%.

That means Mommy & Daddy's share is .005%.
Grunt share is .095%

Mommy & Daddy have many, many other things to worry about that are much more likely.

Grunt doesn't, as far as kids are concerned.

It's up to grunt.

Sounds like you went to the same school as the EPA. Like I have said as soon as HO/Parents find out about this RRP thing when they want work done a lot of them will either do it them self or get someone who won't because they don't know anything about it. As an example a contractor who does not abide by the rules. It makes no difference who does the work if they don't follow the rules and the baby could get EBL but hey that's ok because the EPA didn't inform the parent about it before hand and it's only a few thousand kids so whats the big deal. But this is not my point I'm getting at. It's not our job to teach RRP to the masses it's the EPA's job. Which they are not doing and leaving it to us. Which you seem to think is fine!

I'm trying to think or a more simple way to explain this to you as your just not getting it.

Right your in this new borns class. Your there because you are concerned about hundreds of things and want to keep your new baby safe. Numerous examples from under sink stored poisons to blind cords are spoken about but then someone brings up lead. Not one person in this class or even the teacher knows anything about this lead issue so to the parent it can't be a big deal so they don't worry about it. Yet suddenly when they have some work done mr contractor tells them that the house has to be contained like a nuclear containment area and they don't see the big deal as they have never heard of this before. We then have to become the teacher which is not our job.


You have clearly never given anyone the RRP run down when on a job because you would know the looks you get from people who think your full of crap to try and get more money out of them as the other 3 contractors didn't even mention it.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:05 AM   #24
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


I think we have all eat lead paint.....and we are all still kicking. I think lead is in the same group as global warming, arsenic deck treating, carcinogens in cigarettes, and red coloring in hot dogs.

The government says it is bad............so it must be bad. Ignore the fact we are all still alive.......it has to be bad!
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:05 AM   #25
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


With all due respect, this is an issue that would not generally be covered by people involved with neonatal. The number of newborns that are able to chew on lead is very close to zero. Most newborns don't have the ability or the desire to go chomp on the window sill. It doesn't surprise me that it doesn't get covered in a 'bringing home baby' class. A lot of new parents probably don't know the proper spacing of balusters either........they cover the stuff that causes most of the problems clearly......perhaps a guy that works in a bodyshop would say "I can't believe they didn't cover ingestion of xylene!?!" Nobody can keep their kid safe 100% of the time......you just try to get as close as you can........
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:12 AM   #26
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


BC - don't do work on homes built pre-78. I just solved your problem. You're welcome
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:28 AM   #27
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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I think we have all eat lead paint.....and we are all still kicking. I think lead is in the same group as global warming, arsenic deck treating, carcinogens in cigarettes, and red coloring in hot dogs.

The government says it is bad............so it must be bad. Ignore the fact we are all still alive.......it has to be bad!
This is how I feel. Ok I wouldn't be sanding a door right next to my baby's crib That's for sure but I also wouldn't worry if my paint in the house was lead paint even though it ain't.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:35 AM   #28
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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Originally Posted by Rockmonster View Post
With all due respect, this is an issue that would not generally be covered by people involved with neonatal. The number of newborns that are able to chew on lead is very close to zero. Most newborns don't have the ability or the desire to go chomp on the window sill. It doesn't surprise me that it doesn't get covered in a 'bringing home baby' class. A lot of new parents probably don't know the proper spacing of balusters either........they cover the stuff that causes most of the problems clearly......perhaps a guy that works in a bodyshop would say "I can't believe they didn't cover ingestion of xylene!?!" Nobody can keep their kid safe 100% of the time......you just try to get as close as you can........
They cover poisons and different types of toys yet the baby can't get in these cupboards or even play with these toys. There's much more chance of the baby sucking on a small toy covered in lead dust than a baby walking over to a cabinet and drinking some drain cleaner which I can't even get the lid off. When I sprayed my crib I looked into the paints I was using to make sure they would be ok when the baby's chewing away at the rail. I wonder how many cribs are still being used that have lead paint and how many bath tubs these baby's are being washed in still contain lead. It's not just paint remember. Online it says to test your bath tub for lead yet no parents knew about this either. But this ain't about if it's ok for your baby to be around it and more about what the EPA ain't doing on their part. They need to educate the HO/parents if its really about protecting the baby's/kids.

Bam I don't Work on houses older than 1978 for this exact reason.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:41 AM   #29
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


If the lady in the OP was talking about poisons, I feel she should have brought up lead poisoning, since it is the #1 environmental poison even today for children. However, I understand where other contractors feel that this subject wouldn't have naturally been brought up in the class.

While lead is considered a poison, we have understand in the vast majority of cases ... it is a low level poison. In other words, the poison enters the body ... causes injury, but rarely shows physical (outwardly) symptoms. Long story short ... in the vast amount of cases, you would never know you (or your loved ones) have been injured.

The predominate injury that occurs is within the brain (lower grades in school, lower IQ, lower cognitive reasoning, low executive decision skills behavior problems and etc.). Lead doesn't make you dumb (at least in most cases) ... it just makes you dumber than you were.

To me (as far as RRP), it boils down to ... does a parent personally want to inhale or ingest this poison? Does a parent want their contractor to leave toxic dust behind, so that their children will become slightly dumber?

Is it fair for contractors to have to ask this question or try and prove this is the case to homeowners? NO. However, at the same time, is it fair for contractors to not bring it up (and not do RRP)? No.

------

changing subject

The law (that congress made) that controls what EPA can and can not do ... doesn't cover what homeowners can or can not do ... only what contractors can or can not do.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:26 PM   #30
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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It's not our job to teach RRP to the masses it's the EPA's job. Which they are not doing and leaving it to us. Which you seem to think is fine!

I'm trying to think or a more simple way to explain this to you as your just not getting it.
I can say the same; you're not getting it.

I do not argue that lead isn't bad for you.
I do not argue that the public shouldn't be educated.
I do not argue that parents should engage in practices that contractors are prohibited from.

I do argue with your apparent naivete and lack of cynicism with regard to governmental regulation. The EPA is charged with making rules, not with educating the public in such a manner that everyone will happily follow those rules. It is not given nearly the budget to do that, nor are most other regulatory agencies.

It's simply the way the system works. Governmental agencies set the rules, and it's up to the professionals in each field to follow those rules, under the theory that the majority of X type of work will be done by pros.

Micromanaging everything on a HO level is simply impracticable. It would paralyze our entire socio-economic structure.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:58 PM   #31
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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One guy bought it up
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:23 PM   #32
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
I can say the same; you're not getting it.

I do not argue that lead isn't bad for you.
I do not argue that the public shouldn't be educated.
I do not argue that parents should engage in practices that contractors are prohibited from.

I do argue with your apparent naivete and lack of cynicism with regard to governmental regulation. The EPA is charged with making rules, not with educating the public in such a manner that everyone will happily follow those rules. It is not given nearly the budget to do that, nor are most other regulatory agencies.

It's simply the way the system works. Governmental agencies set the rules, and it's up to the professionals in each field to follow those rules, under the theory that the majority of X type of work will be done by pros.

Micromanaging everything on a HO level is simply impracticable. It would paralyze our entire socio-economic structure.
Yes my point exactly "under the THEORY that work is done by pros" you are aware there is vastly more unlicensed contractors than licensed ones. Theres also vastly more contractors who know nothing about RRP than there is who know about it. Just because 80% of us on this site know about it that don't mean 80% in the rest of US does and then we have issue of the ones who do know, but don't care about it. then you have the minority of pros who do follow it but have to explain the whole mess to the HO when they have never heard anything about it. It don't change the fact that it's left to the contractor to deal with. You can make as many excuses for the EPA as you like my I won't support there silly ideas when all its about clearly is money. If they really cared they would stop all crap toys being produced by china with lead it also which gets shipped here.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:42 AM   #33
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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Online it says to test your bath tub for lead ...
If the glaze contains lead, it would have to be abraded or broken to release lead. The same with ceramic tile. Some improperly fired pottery used for food storage (e.g. some of the ceramic pots of candy sold in Mexico) cna and do release lead.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:08 PM   #34
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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If the glaze contains lead, it would have to be abraded or broken to release lead. The same with ceramic tile. Some improperly fired pottery used for food storage (e.g. some of the ceramic pots of candy sold in Mexico) cna and do release lead.
I was amazed at how much stuff still contains lead. When we was in the class they told us to register every product for recalls and they showed us the recall list for toys with lead and it was unreal. It's good that you can get recall info if you register but I wonder how many people don't and their kids and siting there right now chewing on a lead tainted toy.

Still don't make any sense that the government will warn you about lead tainted toys but won't warn you about lead paint!
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:32 PM   #35
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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Most people in their homes don't disturb their paint. They don't think about it. Contractors are the one who disturb it, thus making it our responsibility.
It's kids eating paint - chewing on window sills, and such. There have been SOME (rare cases) from remodeling type activities. The lead has to be ingested, not breathed.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:34 PM   #36
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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Still don't make any sense that the government will warn you about lead tainted toys but won't warn you about lead paint!
If you ever rent a place built before 1978, there is a federally mandated lead disclosure form and a dangers of lead pamphlet which are required by law to be given to the renter.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:34 PM   #37
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It's kids eating paint - chewing on window sills, and such. There have been SOME (rare cases) from remodeling type activities. The lead has to be ingested, not breathed.
Not true. Lead dust even even more so an issue.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:18 AM   #38
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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Not true. Lead dust even even more so an issue.
I don't know where you're getting this from. Lead has to be ingested to have the effects on children.

"Plaintiffs have the burden of 1) proving the presence of
lead in a location where a child could have ingested it"

http://www.housingadvocatesinc.com/U...ng%20Draft.pdf

You could also read the original government reports - I have. The argument about dust is that dust on a surface gets on a kid's fingers, then the kid sticks their fingers in their mouth, thus ingesting the lead. That's why cleaning surfaces is required in RRP.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:32 AM   #39
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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I don't know where you're getting this from. Lead has to be ingested to have the effects on children.

"Plaintiffs have the burden of 1) proving the presence of
lead in a location where a child could have ingested it"

http://www.housingadvocatesinc.com/U...ng%20Draft.pdf

You could also read the original government reports - I have. The argument about dust is that dust on a surface gets on a kid's fingers, then the kid sticks their fingers in their mouth, thus ingesting the lead. That's why cleaning surfaces is required in RRP.
It's makes zero difference what form the lead is in. The kid could be drinking it, eating it, sucking it up, licking it etc etc you need to go back and check what your talking about. As an example a window that is opened and closed numerous time creates dust and that dust can end up on anything from the baby's toys to the baby's food. Either way the baby will end up with it in its system.

But this is not about how the baby gets lead in its system it's about who has to educate the consumer about the issues. Should it be my issue even though I don't do RRP work? Even medical experts don't inform the parents about RRP even though they tell you to register your products for issues like lead. but as I have said RRP is unknown to these people yet the government says its a big issue!
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:08 PM   #40
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Re: Are We The Only Ones Worried About RRP?


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It's makes zero difference what form the lead is in. The kid could be drinking it, eating it, sucking it up, licking it etc etc you need to go back and check what your talking about. As an example a window that is opened and closed numerous time creates dust and that dust can end up on anything from the baby's toys to the baby's food. Either way the baby will end up with it in its system.

But this is not about how the baby gets lead in its system it's about who has to educate the consumer about the issues. Should it be my issue even though I don't do RRP work? Even medical experts don't inform the parents about RRP even though they tell you to register your products for issues like lead. but as I have said RRP is unknown to these people yet the government says its a big issue!
Let's do a quick check here. Are you RRP certified? I am. I was the first in my RRP class to finish the test and scored 100%. Have you read the studies quoted in the congressional register detailing the lead sources, health effects, epidemiological studies, and calculated exposure levels for different activities? I have.

The EPA rules do not apply to homeowners, since homeowners working on their own houses can't be construed as engaging in interstate commerce, so the EPA is powerless to regulate DIYers. There also would be little public support for this type of legislation.

Like I said before, disclosure of the hazards of lead is mandatory when renting a house or apartment to someone. My general cleaning advice works well for controlling dust of any kind - throw away your broom. HEPA vac for vacuuming, wet mop or damp mop for hard surface floors, damp clean mop boards, windowsills, etc. That's no matter the age of the home.

On to the next topic...

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