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'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'

 
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:05 AM   #141
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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On that note you should understand the pushback from contractors here when you suggest we are from the same group fighting against the same enemy. We aren't, It's that simple. Contractors would continue to exist without government and most likely your business wouldn't.
Hear, hear!!

Well said.

Government has become the enemy and as another poster said, anyone who doesn't like you can now destroy your business with a single call to the EPA.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:37 AM   #142
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


When I think about this, I can see using a consultant if I were to go about stripping if there weren't any lead laws. It could save a lot of time to know what's on there up front.

I think if I were a lead consultant these days, I'd probably market my services as a stripping expert to people doing stripping. Bigger market.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:41 AM   #143
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


Contractors may have a silver lining in all of this, at least the new construction guys. Eventually the combination of lead laws and energy codes will make a bunch of housing obsolete - good for the demo guys, and good for the new construction guys. That's a lot of stuff going to landfills, but hey, that's progress for you.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:14 PM   #144
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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Contractors may have a silver lining in all of this, at least the new construction guys. Eventually the combination of lead laws and energy codes will make a bunch of housing obsolete - good for the demo guys, and good for the new construction guys. That's a lot of stuff going to landfills, but hey, that's progress for you.
That's another facet that makes me cringe.

My husband and I are forever "discussing" (ahem) my efforts to conserve, and there's the good old government, promoting legislation that may have the "unintended consequence" of sending 250,000 pounds of house to the landfill.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:33 PM   #145
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


That was the first thing I thought back in 2010. Making the existing housing stock so expensive that the cost of green energynew homes starts looking like a better option.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:38 PM   #146
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


There are plenty of innovations in air sealing and insulating old houses as retrofits, but pretty much taking paint off to bare wood is the same old same old.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #147
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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Originally Posted by LeeFowler View Post
.... give me a real life example of why it would be useful to use your company. Perhaps we can turn this conversation in a different direction. Say I want to bid on remodeling a house built in 1958 but my first thought is RRP. As a contractor how do I benefit in hiring you? How does this help in educating the consumer. What's the very specific value proposition that you offer?
Thank you for a constructive question! What I'm writing applies to any good consulting company.

A) Consultants can help educate consumers, as it is obvious that we are specialists, with no axe to grind regarding what we find. We didn't put it there, and we don't remove it. A consumer confused about who is giving them the straight story would be more likely to believe a specialist professional. We also have plenty of experience explaining all of this, and know it well, so can do so quickly and efficiently.

B) The year 1958 is interesting, as the usage of lead-based paint fell off dramatically in the 1950s, as the water-based paint became good enough to displace the oil-based paints. My company has never seen a building of any age with all painted surfaces covered with lead-based paint, and certainly not one as "new" as 1958. Thus, the XRF inspection a consultant would provide would be backing away from the mandatory assumption that all paint is lead-based to the reality of what is actually present. Facts are surely more useful than guesses and assumptions.

C) Some contractors prefer to have a building owner hire the consultant to test for lead (and asbestos), while others prefer to have a contract which allows them to hire consultants to perform the testing. If the contractor already has a contract in place and a contract which allows them to hire the consultant, whatever is found becomes the subject of a change order. If the owner hires the consultant, all contractors are bidding with the same information.

D) Consultants have extensive experience with various aspects of dealing with lead, such as the effectiveness of various removal techniques, the performance of encapsulants, and disposal issues. For example, I was on the phone a few hours ago with one of the abatement contractors bidding on the abatement work needed for conversion of a six story office building to an apartment building (and it started out as a parking garage!), helping him consider the labor cost, disposal cost, and safety issues involved with various approaches to doing the work. We also routinely have such conversations with owners.

E) Consultants have experience working with abatement contractors, so if a contractor needs an abatement sub-contractor, can supply a list of contractors they know who have done good work on past projects (often numerous past projects).

F) If the consultant also performs a Risk Assessment, which involves sampling of dust, a contractor has baseline data to show what lead dust was present before they started work, so they can not be blamed for it.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:55 AM   #148
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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Originally Posted by FStephenMasek
Thank you for a constructive question! What I'm writing applies to any good consulting company. A) Consultants can help educate consumers, as it is obvious that we are specialists, with no axe to grind regarding what we find. We didn't put it there, and we don't remove it. A consumer confused about who is giving them the straight story would be more likely to believe a specialist professional. We also have plenty of experience explaining all of this, and know it well, so can do so quickly and efficiently. B) The year 1958 is interesting, as the usage of lead-based paint fell off dramatically in the 1950s, as the water-based paint became good enough to displace the oil-based paints. My company has never seen a building of any age with all painted surfaces covered with lead-based paint, and certainly not one as "new" as 1958. Thus, the XRF inspection a consultant would provide would be backing away from the mandatory assumption that all paint is lead-based to the reality of what is actually present. Facts are surely more useful than guesses and assumptions. C) Some contractors prefer to have a building owner hire the consultant to test for lead (and asbestos), while others prefer to have a contract which allows them to hire consultants to perform the testing. If the contractor already has a contract in place and a contract which allows them to hire the consultant, whatever is found becomes the subject of a change order. If the owner hires the consultant, all contractors are bidding with the same information. D) Consultants have extensive experience with various aspects of dealing with lead, such as the effectiveness of various removal techniques, the performance of encapsulants, and disposal issues. For example, I was on the phone a few hours ago with one of the abatement contractors bidding on the abatement work needed for conversion of a six story office building to an apartment building (and it started out as a parking garage!), helping him consider the labor cost, disposal cost, and safety issues involved with various approaches to doing the work. We also routinely have such conversations with owners. E) Consultants have experience working with abatement contractors, so if a contractor needs an abatement sub-contractor, can supply a list of contractors they know who have done good work on past projects (often numerous past projects). F) If the consultant also performs a Risk Assessment, which involves sampling of dust, a contractor has baseline data to show what lead dust was present before they started work, so they can not be blamed for it.
If you are a consultant I am the king of England. You don't even know OSHA is for workers. You don't even know the laws. Ya your a consultant. I take all that back you probably are a consultant as you have no idea what your talking about.

I can't read your post anymore as you are always wrong in your comments. But it's fun.
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:42 PM   #149
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


Quote:
Originally Posted by FStephenMasek
Thank you for a constructive question! What I'm writing applies to any good consulting company. A) Consultants can help educate consumers, as it is obvious that we are specialists, with no axe to grind regarding what we find. We didn't put it there, and we don't remove it. A consumer confused about who is giving them the straight story would be more likely to believe a specialist professional. We also have plenty of experience explaining all of this, and know it well, so can do so quickly and efficiently. B) The year 1958 is interesting, as the usage of lead-based paint fell off dramatically in the 1950s, as the water-based paint became good enough to displace the oil-based paints. My company has never seen a building of any age with all painted surfaces covered with lead-based paint, and certainly not one as "new" as 1958. Thus, the XRF inspection a consultant would provide would be backing away from the mandatory assumption that all paint is lead-based to the reality of what is actually present. Facts are surely more useful than guesses and assumptions. C) Some contractors prefer to have a building owner hire the consultant to test for lead (and asbestos), while others prefer to have a contract which allows them to hire consultants to perform the testing. If the contractor already has a contract in place and a contract which allows them to hire the consultant, whatever is found becomes the subject of a change order. If the owner hires the consultant, all contractors are bidding with the same information. D) Consultants have extensive experience with various aspects of dealing with lead, such as the effectiveness of various removal techniques, the performance of encapsulants, and disposal issues. For example, I was on the phone a few hours ago with one of the abatement contractors bidding on the abatement work needed for conversion of a six story office building to an apartment building (and it started out as a parking garage!), helping him consider the labor cost, disposal cost, and safety issues involved with various approaches to doing the work. We also routinely have such conversations with owners. E) Consultants have experience working with abatement contractors, so if a contractor needs an abatement sub-contractor, can supply a list of contractors they know who have done good work on past projects (often numerous past projects). F) If the consultant also performs a Risk Assessment, which involves sampling of dust, a contractor has baseline data to show what lead dust was present before they started work, so they can not be blamed for it.
I think the disconnect for many of us here is we don't work on projects like converting a six story office building. Perhaps I'm making assumptions but most of our work pertains to single family homes. I can see how it might behoove a contractor in places like Savannah (a place a dearly hope to love one day) or Charleston to develop a great relationship with a consultant but Atlanta isn't covered up with old homes. In fact the north burned us to the ground in Sherman's March and most of the city wasn't rebuilt until the 50s at best.
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:51 PM   #150
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


I am fortunate here in Cali, there are to s of homes built after 1978
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Old 03-10-2014, 07:22 AM   #151
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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I can see how it might behoove a contractor in places like Savannah (a place a dearly hope to love one day) or Charleston to develop a great relationship with a consultant but Atlanta isn't covered up with old homes. In fact the north burned us to the ground in Sherman's March and most of the city wasn't rebuilt until the 50s at best.
Ah yes, the lunatic Sherman and his "March to the Sea."

We learned all about "The War of Northern Aggression" in elementary school!
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:10 AM   #152
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


The only one who can legally provide Lead Painted toys to American Children are our reliable allies, the Chineses
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:35 AM   #153
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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The only one who can legally provide Lead Painted toys to American Children are our reliable allies, the Chineses
Love it. Let's not forget the food we buy from china that does not have to list lead as an ingredient. Or even the country of origin! Something we put in our bodies daily. But remod a house without RRP and your done.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:36 PM   #154
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


Testing of toys is a significant industry. There have been sad instances in which a small maker of toys or children's clothing has had their entire annual shipments rejected due to one small component, an indication that the buyers or their consultants are performing detailed testing.

As for food, the Orange County Register ran a multi-part investigative report several years ago exposing the problem with lead in candy from Mexico. It is apparently due to lead contamination of the chilies (chile pepper in candy....). Besides lead dust, they found a significant problem with cheaters adding battery terminals to bags of chilies which are sold by weight.

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You don't even know OSHA is for workers.
Of course OSHA applies to employers with employees. Why do you claim I don't know that?

I'm a consulting company owner (we are in our 23rd year) and expert on this. Have you read all of the regulations from start to end? I have. Have you been dealing with this subject matter most every work day since 1990? I have. How many magazine articles which you wrote have been published? Many I've written have been published. Have you spoken at national conventions? I've done so many times (much more fun than just attending). However, I never claim to know it all. As I've stated, I've learned useful things participating here.

Attacking the wrong people is not going to help you. We consultants did not make the regulations, and we did not ignore lead and create the demand for the regulations. More the significantly, the regulations are here and they are not going away at any foreseeable time. That means we all need to develop effective ways of dealing with them. Head in the sand or complaining are not amongst the effective approaches.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:54 PM   #155
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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That means we all need to develop effective ways of dealing with them. Head in the sand or complaining are not amongst the effective approaches.
In the end, this means tear out, insulation upgrade, then put back together new. It used to be we'd save as much as possible of the original, but everything is headed toward gutting or just tear it down, IMO.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:26 AM   #156
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


This is to stephenmasek. You can't DO so you regulate. You mentioned OSHA would have something to do with house wrecking. Wrong. You claim lead waste has to be disposed of in some safe manner. Wrong. Now I will explain your job to you.

I CAN completely demolish a home to the ground with lead paint in it. Legally. When I am done it will house NO children.

Yes I have to bag everything. I then CAN have that garbage picked up by the garbage men to place on the truck and smashed. Is this containment? No. But is it legal? Yes.

I WILL follow the laws. I DO think they are a joke. I will ignore your post.
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:10 AM   #157
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


FWIW, Maine tracks lead blood levels of about half the infants benefiting from the "Maine Care", a state medical program. Elevated blood levels are set by federal definition at 10 ug/dL. The proportion of elevated blood levels has been dropping since way before RRP.

Federal guidelines now set "elevated blood level" at 5 ug/dL, so there's going to be a jump in rate in this category.
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:37 PM   #158
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


It took a while, but we finally realized that there must be secret settlements which are not being announced, so there is probably more, or much more enforcement than is obvious from the published fines.

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I CAN completely demolish a home to the ground with lead paint in it. Yes I have to bag everything. I then CAN have that garbage picked up by the garbage men to place on the truck and smashed. Is this containment? No. But is it legal? Yes.
You need to check all of the applicable laws and regulations. RRP is just one of many. Lead waste is hauled by licensed haulers under a hazardous waste manifest and taken to permitted landfills for special handling and disposal. There are variations from state to state, so contractors need to find a good consultant(s) in the area(s) in which they work to help them stay out of trouble.
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:43 PM   #159
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Re: 'RRP Nightmare-General Contractor And His Subcontractor Both Get Nailed By EPA'


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It took a while, but we finally realized that there must be secret settlements which are not being announced, so there is probably more, or much more enforcement than is obvious from the published fines.

You need to check all of the applicable laws and regulations. RRP is just one of many. Lead waste is hauled by licensed haulers under a hazardous waste manifest and taken to permitted landfills for special handling and disposal. There are variations from state to state, so contractors need to find a good consultant(s) in the area(s) in which they work to help them stay out of trouble.
But under the federal EPA RRP guidelines he's absolutely correct.
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Old 11-25-2014, 09:54 PM   #160
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But under the federal EPA RRP guidelines he's absolutely correct.
Maine is easy. No special landfill, just regular wood disposal fee. There's even one that takes asbestos - no forms to fill out (unless they changed in the past couple of years).

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