RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped - Page 3 - Lead RRP Discussion - Contractor Talk

RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-18-2010, 09:20 PM   #41
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Can someone come up with or is there already a letter that we can all use to send to our congressmen to demand a repeal of this law or a delay of it's implementation?
Mike Finley is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-18-2010, 09:23 PM   #42
The Deck Guy
 
Greg Di's Avatar
 
Trade: Outdoor Design & Construction
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 3,126
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


At what point does the EPA realize that people are just going to say F-U to all this?

Does anyone here picture themselves being 100% compliant 100% of the time? Personally, I don't think it's possible. If you don't agree, then I think you are working in a different world than I am.
Greg Di is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:24 PM   #43
Pro
 
oldfrt's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northwest Connecticut
Posts: 2,565
Rewards Points: 94

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
Can someone come up with or is there already a letter that we can all use to send to our congressmen to demand a repeal of this law or a delay of it's implementation?
As posted by SLS?
http://www.wddalliance.org./pdf/WDDA%20EPA%20letter.pdf

Last edited by oldfrt; 03-18-2010 at 09:27 PM.
oldfrt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-18-2010, 09:31 PM   #44
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfrt View Post

I saw that one from before. I don't care for it. It's too wishy washy and doesn't address the point that nobody can be compliant with the regulations. It also needs to talk about how the timing for this is ridiculous.

The hardest hit sector of the economy being forced to comply with this during a recession? Ridiculous.

Maybe one of our members who's a good writer could write us a form letter?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Di View Post
At what point does the EPA realize that people are just going to say F-U to all this?

Does anyone here picture themselves being 100% compliant 100% of the time? Personally, I don't think it's possible. If you don't agree, then I think you are working in a different world than I am.

I'm in total agreement with you and that's one of the main reasons I'm so against this. There is no way a company can be 100% compliant. The EPA is basically making every person in the home improvement field a criminal on April 22nd.

A 400 page training manual? Come on now!
Mike Finley is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:32 PM   #45
Pro
 
oldfrt's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northwest Connecticut
Posts: 2,565
Rewards Points: 94

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


I don't know how many of you are aware of this but:
Congress passed the law calling on EPA to address lead hazards created from renovation work in 1992, giving them until 1996 to issue a rule. After years of inaction, then-Senator Barack Obama forced EPA to commit to moving forward on this rule in 2005.

Don't expect any mercy from this administration.
oldfrt is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to oldfrt For This Useful Post:
BPWY (03-19-2010)
Old 03-18-2010, 09:35 PM   #46
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


I dealt with my first lead today who lives in an older house, I asked them if they have had their home tested for lead. Which of course they have no idea what I'm talking about. I basically told them we would only come out to do an estimate if they have their home tested for lead first or they want us to test it. At this point we aren't going to waste our time with this.
Mike Finley is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:37 PM   #47
Pro
 
CharlesD's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling/building
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Live In Illinois.
Posts: 234
Rewards Points: 150

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Today I read that the IRS will be in charge of enforcing the new "health care" laws and will hire up to 12,000 new agents for that purpose.

All the government has to do is put the IRS in charge of tracking home owners and contractors who do remodeling.

I'm not smart enough to figure out all the details of how they will keep track of things, but every bone in my body says they could do it with tax returns.

The Federal, State and local governments kept adding rules and regulations year after year and good contractors used them to gain an advantage over illegal's and cheats. Now there's a law that goes beyond our comfort zone so there's an uproar.

My personal opinion is we're way to late in our effort to stop things like this. The fight should have been years ago, Do you actually believe the average Senator or Representative would have the stigma of voting against controlling something that poisons children? The survival of our freedoms, free enterprise and capitalism isn't on their minds nowadays.
CharlesD is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 10:26 PM   #48
Pro
 
Tom M's Avatar
 
Trade: GC/ Interior & Exterior Remodeling
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 10,601
Rewards Points: 9,690

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


I havent taken the class yet but Im signed up. I understand children and pregnant woman are prone to the dangers. Im sure I will learn something useful I didnt know before.
What strikes me is that I havent heard anyone who has taken the class say anything about there own well being, I mean we've been working in the field since young adulthood did any of you grow concerned about your own previous exposure? I always knew the eating the paint chip thing but thats mere common sense right.....There is a guy in another forum that says he used to use the lead paint from the bottom of the can as filler for trim work, he's fine. If you did 12 replacment windows a day and your cost were going up, how could you possibly expect to get a larger rate for doing half that amount now. It wont happen and we will suffer.

It needs to be proven that its not real dangerous under typical conditions in order to be reworked. Then we got a chance.
Tom M is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 10:51 PM   #49
Carpe Diem
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: Smile 4 Tile
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,533
Rewards Points: 1,114

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
Can someone come up with or is there already a letter that we can all use to send to our congressmen to demand a repeal of this law or a delay of it's implementation?

http://www.housingzone.com/proremode...0&rid=18571646

http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/sp...53/#post857375

That's all I know of.

Honestly, I don't work on many homes pre-1978 and the ones I do will be tile work. I'm not jumping on this bandwagon at all until the crap-cloud has settled.
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 11:16 PM   #50
Pro
 
Doubleoh7's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrician
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 490
Rewards Points: 250

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
If it's a HUD home it's 2 sq ft.

You must also contact the homeowner's mortgage company to determine if his mortgage falls under FHA making it a HUD home.

How's that sound?

Also if you are working on a job site for a GC and the house is still in the containment phase - (meaning you're doing rough in work) you must be certified and you must operate under the same guidelines. Tyvek, gloves, booties, mask, trashbags, goosenecked, take off suit when you leave the containment area, hepa vac all your work clothing... go out to the truck get that wire nut you forgot, go back put all your work clothing back on go back into the containment area put the wire nut on... oh damit I needed that switch cover... hepa vac yourself, remove all work clothing go out the containment door to your truck come back put on all your work clothing...

Well, it's worse than I thought. I guess I really need to go find a class to take. Even if I do not get the certification. If I take the class, should that give me sufficient information to determine where the line is so that I can avoid crossing it? Looks like the safe bet is to avoid pre 78 homes altogether. But, business is slow enough as it is right now. On top of that I think my competitors will just ignore it.
Doubleoh7 is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 11:30 PM   #51
Sluggin away
 
FremontREO's Avatar
 
Trade: Dihydrogen monoxide remediation/GC/REO/Insurance
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 1,393
Rewards Points: 550

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesD View Post
Today I read that the IRS will be in charge of enforcing the new "health care" laws and will hire up to 12,000 new agents for that purpose.

All the government has to do is put the IRS in charge of tracking home owners and contractors who do remodeling.

I'm not smart enough to figure out all the details of how they will keep track of things, but every bone in my body says they could do it with tax returns.

The Federal, State and local governments kept adding rules and regulations year after year and good contractors used them to gain an advantage over illegal's and cheats. Now there's a law that goes beyond our comfort zone so there's an uproar.

My personal opinion is we're way to late in our effort to stop things like this. The fight should have been years ago, Do you actually believe the average Senator or Representative would have the stigma of voting against controlling something that poisons children? The survival of our freedoms, free enterprise and capitalism isn't on their minds nowadays.
Here the body that gathers the information is the SCHOOLS...yep the State requires mandatory lead testing for all kiddies entering Kindergarten (our school superintendent said this will be a national guideline by end of the year) If lead test comes back high then The State Dept of Health and Human Services is contacted. When the parents have the choice of abating the lead at their own cost OR the opportunity to "rat out" a contractor that had performed work at the property
GOOD records and good pictures and that is minimal reduction of liability but better than nothing
FremontREO is offline  
Old 03-18-2010, 11:45 PM   #52
Pro
 
Dan_Watson's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Contractor/Helical Post Installer
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,364
Rewards Points: 2,748

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Anyone that has a house built before 1978 and cares about quality is going to have a hell of a time finding a contractor after April 22nd...I am forgoing the training, for now, and just not getting involved in any work in a home built before 1978 that requires disturbing any painted surfaces.
Dan_Watson is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 12:06 AM   #53
Pro
 
Doubleoh7's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrician
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 490
Rewards Points: 250

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Maybe we should all ask our senators and congressmen why it is OK form the homeowner to put thier own children at risk, but a contractor can be ruined for the same thing.
Doubleoh7 is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 12:17 AM   #54
Pro
 
Doubleoh7's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrician
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 490
Rewards Points: 250

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by rselectric1 View Post
Six square feet adds up pretty quickly. Even enough remodel can cutouts and you pass the limit.

As Mike Finley said, HUD is only 2 square feet. (maybe 4 can light holes?)

As a courtesy to the person who comes in after me to repair the walls on a service call, I usually make a nice neat cut down the center of the studs and if possible, cut out and re-install the drywall with a cut out so all they have to do is tape.

Not anymore (at least on target housing)

I don't think that a homeowner will be too happy about me asking for information on their home mortgage.
Doubleoh7 is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 04:52 AM   #55
Registered User
 
BPWY's Avatar
 
Trade: lawn care/property preservation
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: WY
Posts: 2,651
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
I became a EPA certified contractor today.

I must say that nothing since I started a contracting business have I run into that has been what I feel is a deadly hammer blow to the ability of a contractor to run a profitable business as this new RRP rules.

After sitting through 8 hours of this and listening to the questions and answers and asking some very specific ones myself, I personally believe that no legitimate contractor will be able to be 100% compliant to these new rules and regulations, AND remain a viable business.

In my opinion - on April 22, the EPA will essentiall turn every single person in the home improvement field into a criminal no matter how well intentioned an individual is to comply with these regulations.

After taking the certification I am personally appalled that this legislation was allowed to get to where it is.

I'm willing to personally fund to some degree whatever anyone can come up with to begin getting the news and information out about this and doing whatever we can to at the least change it or at the best revoke it.

I believe it is time to see what political power can be harnessed with the collective membership of contractortalk.com, and I can think of no better cause then this horribly debilitating EPA regulation.

Whatever ideas you have please post them, I am serious at helping fund anything we can come up with that might help. Whether it's some sort of petition, or a website of information and protest of this thing or somehow getting our collective voice heard in Washington. I don't know what the solution should be, but I really believe this legislation is one of the worst things that has ever happened to the field of home improvements and will ultimately reshape our industry in nothing but a negative way for all involved.

If this is accepted as a serious proposition I would hope the moderators would make this post or one that become more refined as a solution as a sticky.

Thanks.


This is very similar to CPSIA laws. Its put a real damper on some home industries. As I understand it the folks fighting this were never able to get it repealed or watered down. Sadly I do not expect any thing good to come from efforts to repeal RRP either.

I can promise you that the animals that came up with these laws do not care in the slightest about a contractor's lack of being able to charge enough to cover all the job details, or the home owner's lack of being able to pay for properly following the new laws.
They all live in new mansions built after 1978. Your plight is the absolute least of their concerns.

We USED to live in the best country in the world. Its sad to see what electing idiots year after year has done to this once greatest country.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1propertyclean View Post
Greed created a need for the preservation industry and greed is destroying it.
Linda

Last edited by BPWY; 03-19-2010 at 04:58 AM.
BPWY is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 06:05 AM   #56
Pro
 
abacab's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 378
Rewards Points: 390

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Today while I was working and trying to fathom what I would have to be doing after April 22, and it boggled my mind. I don't work in "one area" of a house, but am constantly flikking around from area to area, finding myself frequently in areas I had no intention of working, imagining having to lug the vacuum around everywhere I go (up down, up down, into the attic, down under the crawl space, all within a matter of 20 minutes) and then having to seal and plastic all those areas? I don't even have close to the money to comply. After April 22, I will be a criminal, and so will 99% of you, even if you try to follow everything to a T.

There is no way in hell I'm going to put plastic down outside and then put my ladder on it. I'm sure this violates an OSHA law. The instructor said put the sharp "teeth" into the plastic and into the ground. For one, I might move the ladder 20 times in one hour, so you've completely destroyed the integrity of the plastic, and two, I might be on concrete where it is impossible.

Wrapping every piece of tear out with plastic on a complete or partial gut? And then cleaning off the bag before bringing it outside? HA!

They will have to peal the hammer out of my cold dead hand before I comply.
abacab is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 06:13 AM   #57
Pro
 
abacab's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 378
Rewards Points: 390

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Civil Disobedience, that is what we need to do.

On April 22 we need to gather and work on a project without using the new laws. Perhaps we could have a second similar job going that follows all the laws to a T. Log all time and expenses for the two jobs. It would certainly bring in the media.

While I'm concerned about Lead as much as the next guy, there has to be a better way that is more cost effective.
abacab is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 06:15 AM   #58
Pro
 
mike stanislaw's Avatar
 
Trade: deck contractor
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: PA. and New Jersey
Posts: 162
Rewards Points: 182

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


This is not a money grab. This EPA action is disguised as a public protection regulation.
What it really is by design is a power take over by the Government. If you haven't been watching the news about health care and what it's all about or understand you will soon. BUT IT MIGHT BE TOO LATE!
I am willing to follow, lead, sacrifice if needed and do anything that would be effective to stop this very small group of people from taking over my life and my freedoms.I hope I'm not alone it's hard to carry the weight all by myself.
Most folks came here to get away from just this kind of governments. We are being lead to slaughter by our rulers. Lets band together before they put a Quarantine on large groups assembling, do to the whatever-flu.

Any ideas we can talk about here would help no matter how bad they sound at first.
Here's a bad one just to start things off.
Lets ALL boycott the regulation and see what the EPA does. They can't enforce this law they are very poorly founded, and what ever money they receive from our taxes is mostly stolen by there higher ups. aver all they are politically aliened.

Mike

What's the difference between a dead Politician in the road and a dead skunk in the road?
Vultures will eat the skunk.

Last edited by mike stanislaw; 03-19-2010 at 06:18 AM.
mike stanislaw is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 06:44 AM   #59
Pro
 
PA woodbutcher's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northeast, Pa
Posts: 1,965
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysconfusd11 View Post
Anyone that has a house built before 1978 and cares about quality is going to have a hell of a time finding a contractor after April 22nd...I am forgoing the training, for now, and just not getting involved in any work in a home built before 1978 that requires disturbing any painted surfaces.
Probably not. I'm sure there are plenty of contractors out there doing quality work that will fly under the radar for a little while anyways.

I am currently working on an older house and trying to abide by the rules as I have picked them up from this and another site (class is scheduled, but not taken yet). It is a PITA. Like most government actions they have taken things too far. As Mike has said, it will be very hard to become 100% compliant.

The painter showed up yesterday to power wash and start prepping for exterior paint. I believe this will be his last pre '78 paint job. He's looking for other ventures, probably out of the trades.

We as contractors make most of our money (for most around here anyways) during the summer......a kink like this will run many out of business, leaving only the ones that try to maintain a legitimacy for the government buzzards.
__________________
When you rob Peter to pay Paul, chances are pretty good you will receive Paul's vote. Apparently the object of the game is to create more Pauls than Peters....What happens when the Peters can no longer support the Pauls? .
PA woodbutcher is offline  
Old 03-19-2010, 07:33 AM   #60
Sean
 
SLSTech's Avatar
 
Trade: Principal / Owner
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 5,424
Rewards Points: 162

Re: RRP And The EPA Must Be Stopped


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
I saw that one from before. I don't care for it. It's too wishy washy and doesn't address the point that nobody can be compliant with the regulations. It also needs to talk about how the timing for this is ridiculous.
Mike, I agree but at least they tried / are trying. They do have a good list there of Senators & representatives to write to with your concerns - not including your own.

You also have the coalition of 12 trying to delay it, via congress

I know ChrWright, Silvertree, RBS, myself & others were working on an industry wide one, but I think that died off when work schedules picked up. Maybe shoot ChrWright a PM and see what the status is.

Compliance is truthfully not that hard on the EPA's part - forget all the crap you heard in class about wearing Tyvek & respirators on all jobs. That is an OSHA requirement based on lead actually being present (not assumed but known to be present) & only applies when dust levels exceed a certain level. If you trip into that, you have to do yearly medical checks, have separate shower areas etc... http://blog.sls-construction.com/?p=665 (first of 3 articles on the requirements - I suggest reading all three before you have a coronary)

Advertisement

__________________
SLS Construction & Building Solutions LLC Our Blog - The HTRC
SLSTech is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?