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New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

 
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:37 AM   #1501
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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Third party testing.
It will probably be the next ruling in RRP anyways.
Thats not very helpful nor does it address the RULES as they stand right now. You can live and work in fear of armegeggon or simply comply and and move on.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:44 AM   #1502
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


sorry for the double post----newbie

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Old 04-22-2010, 06:46 AM   #1503
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


is anyone else seeing future post already? "we have all this work" and "the SOB inspector said....." and "but the law says...." and "what are you guys paying for test?" and "We have to get this stopped" and on and on.

Yes we should be clean, but until we make the home owner somewhat responsible too this is just going to hurt the professionals.
If my kid is late too many time to school "I" can be held accountable by a flippin' school board. Yet we can't make it so if a homeowner does not verify that a permit has been pulled, contractor is registered, or other requirements are met then they TOO are fined? come on man give me a break.

if nothing else we will have months if not years of great post to read.
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:13 AM   #1504
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Check out Shawn McCadden.com, The site is constantly being updated with information on the new law. At least something to help in some of the gray areas.
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:21 AM   #1505
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Was anyone able to upload the info on the link that searches for EPA registered contractors? The site seem overloaded and busy.
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:38 AM   #1506
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


When the lawyers jump in they are looking for the deep pockets. Look for class actions against the paint manufacturers. There may some Contractor vs Homeowner but I think they will quickly see that there is no money in that when say Contractor removes trim in bathroom reno. They try to say you poisoned their house, but as the plaintiff they have the burden of proof to prove that your bathroom trim poisoned the whole house and not existing lead in the bedrooms, kitchen, lr, dr, hallway, outside siding, etc. As the plaintiff they will have to pay to have the entire house inside and out, yard, driveway tested and documented for every surface with paint on it or in the case of the yard, just lead in the ground. Then they would have to prove what percentage of lead contamination in the house was caused by your bath reno. That percentage would be your out as defendant. Total possible contamination from all past and present sources for the sake of argument, 25,000 sq ft, your bath reno disturbs 20sq ft. They assign the percentage of damage to you. Pay plaintiff $500 on their $Million dollar suit.Any half descent defense lawyer would use that argument to blow a hole in their case and get the jury to go your way.
My wife works for a law firm and they get involved in asbestos, they aren't suing Fred's Mobil station because he did a brake job, they sue Bendix Corp for making the brakes.
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:40 AM   #1507
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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how are they going to ban fiberglass? it's still being sold, if you wear a mask you aren't really harming yourself. just itchy. are they going to FORCE everyone to spend 5-6 times the amount for spray foam?

also, it's one thing to say test other areas, it's another to actually go through someone's nice house and gouge wood in areas they don't want touched and do the testings. leaving their wood work on a bunch of surfaces with gouges that need to be filled and painted.

and really how are you going to do that if yo don't even have the job? what if you are just in the bidding or design phase? if you already have the job, how can you bid it if you don't have tests already done? better to just assume in older homes and contain the dust.

I will be very upfront and let them know that there will be a charge for testing because of the small ammount of damage and repairs, but the non-work area tests are for RESIDUAL dust, so you can determine the presence of lead dust BEFORE any work is done.

If it is present, then I will not do the job, because the whole house needs to be addressed.

We were told that 3rd party testing will be conducted in other rooms and areas than just the work areas, to ensure you had proper containment throughout.

If you don't test other areas and there is lead dust, and they find it, you are gonna have to detail the ENTIRE house, on your dime. You also become open to liability problems from breach of containment, because of the test, and your lack of a test to prove anything to the contrary.
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Last edited by Vision Custom; 04-22-2010 at 07:47 AM. Reason: add info
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:51 AM   #1508
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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I will be very upfront and let them know that there will be a charge for testing because of the small ammount of damage and repairs, but the non-work area tests are for RESIDUAL dust, so you can determine the presence of lead dust BEFORE any work is done.

If it is present, then I will not do the job, because the whole house needs to be addressed.
ok. good luck on actually convincing a homeowner that you need to test the whole house for lead dust prior to starting a job by a third party testing firm when all they want is their old front door replace! this whole thing is a joke, and the EPA hasn't a CLUE what contractors really do. I bet not one group of contractors was included in the planning/writing of this rule for input.
one big jobs, it may be easier to have prior testing done to document. but to expect customer who are already on the fence about prices etc, to say they will spend hundreds of dollars or more to have dust tested off their floors and other spaces before you start, is not going fly with most people.

i know what you are trying to do and it's good in theory but it's not going to be able to be really usable in REAL world jobs. not for small jobs at least.

all this is going to do is make people say, ya know what, maybe I don't want new windows. or maybe i'll hold off on this renovation and try selling the house to buy a newer one.

construction industry is going to be harmed by all this because it's our words and documents against lawyers, homeowners and the EPA, who do you think is going to win.

just going to court one time will bankrupt most small contractors around this country, then they lose their houses and the economy gets even worse than it already is.

i hate to be doom and gloom but not sure what else to do. we can follow all the rules and still get sued. no one is looking for the contractors. that is what i am so pissed about.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:02 AM   #1509
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Doesn't really matter. The day is hear. The rule is in effect and there is likely no chance of it getting repealed. As of now thousands of contractors have now been declared criminals by the government. Hope they are happy with themselves and their fantastic campaign to get the word out to all of the contractors. Another great job by our all might over encroaching government.

Idiots.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:03 AM   #1510
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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ok. good luck on actually convincing a homeowner that you need to test the whole house for lead dust prior to starting a job by a third party testing firm when all they want is their old front door replace! this whole thing is a joke, and the EPA hasn't a CLUE what contractors really do. I bet not one group of contractors was included in the planning/writing of this rule for input.
one big jobs, it may be easier to have prior testing done to document. but to expect customer who are already on the fence about prices etc, to say they will spend hundreds of dollars or more to have dust tested off their floors and other spaces before you start, is not going fly with most people.

i know what you are trying to do and it's good in theory but it's not going to be able to be really usable in REAL world jobs. not for small jobs at least.

all this is going to do is make people say, ya know what, maybe I don't want new windows. or maybe i'll hold off on this renovation and try selling the house to buy a newer one.

construction industry is going to be harmed by all this because it's our words and documents against lawyers, homeowners and the EPA, who do you think is going to win.

just going to court one time will bankrupt most small contractors around this country, then they lose their houses and the economy gets even worse than it already is.

i hate to be doom and gloom but not sure what else to do. we can follow all the rules and still get sued. no one is looking for the contractors. that is what i am so pissed about.

Third party testing is done at the end of the job. The initial testing is done by you at the same time as the test in the work zone, with the same EPA APPROVED testers.

Thoroughly CYA and you will be fine. Our jobsite methodologies and business practices have to adapt.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:07 AM   #1511
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Welp..here it is, 4/22

After warning most of my regular clients about this "big day", there's no mention of it on the local news, no commercials, nothing on my internet home-page news.

Now I know how Chicken Little felt.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:08 AM   #1512
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


I looked through my local paper also and found zip, zilch, zero, nada.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:13 AM   #1513
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


As expected, the opt-out has been removed: http://www.epa.gov/lead/new.htm

Quote:
April 22, 2010 -- The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is announcing several new actions to prevent lead paint poisoning. Almost a million children have elevated blood lead levels as a result of exposure to lead hazards, which can lead to lower intelligence, learning disabilities, and behavior issues. In addition, adults exposed to lead hazards can suffer from high blood pressure, headaches, and memory loss. Children under six years old are most at risk.

EPA announced three actions:

EPA issued a final rule to expand the coverage of the 2008 Lead Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) Rule by eliminating the "opt out" provision in the 2008 rule. Once the rule becomes effective 60 days after publication, renovation firms will no longer be exempted from the training and work practice requirements of the RRP rule by obtaining certification from the owner of a residence that no child under age 6 or pregnant woman resides in the home and the home is not a child-occupied facility.

EPA is also issuing a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) to strengthen the 2008 RRP rule in housing and child-occupied facilities by adding dust wipe testing requirements. Under this proposal, renovation firms would have to perform dust wipe testing after certain renovations and provide the results of the testing to the owners and occupants of the building. For a subset of the dustiest renovations, renovation firms would have to demonstrate, through dust wipe testing, that the dust lead levels remaining after the renovation are below the regulatory hazard standards. EPA will take comments on the proposal for 60 days and expects to finalize the rule by July 2011.

EPA is issuing an Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to announce EPA's intention to regulate renovations on the exteriors of public and commercial buildings. The Advance Notice also announces EPA's investigation into lead-based paint hazards that may be created by renovations on the interior of these public and commercial buildings. If EPA determines that lead-based paint hazards are created by interior renovations, EPA will propose regulations to address the hazards.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:17 AM   #1514
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


From the EPA website -
"EPA issued a final rule to expand the coverage of the 2008 Lead Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) Rule by eliminating the "opt out" provision in the 2008 rule. Once the rule becomes effective 60 days after publication, renovation firms will no longer be exempted from the training and work practice requirements of the RRP rule by obtaining certification from the owner of a residence that no child under age 6 or pregnant woman resides in the home and the home is not a child-occupied facility."

So does this mean the opt out is still valid for 60 days after today or am I reading this wrong?

Thanks, Norman
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:25 AM   #1515
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


What wanna know, is how I'm going to recoup the cost of my new HEPA vac, if my clients don't realize why I have to have it.

Let's see some TV commercials!

Maybe pouring hot, molten lead over some babies or something...

better yet..some animals suffering and dying in the yard, while the painter runs his disc sander in the background.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:27 AM   #1516
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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Thats not very helpful nor does it address the RULES as they stand right now. You can live and work in fear of armegeggon or simply comply and and move on.
If you want to comply and move on,go for it.
I'm going to protect my liability by having documentation of a clean work site from third party testing, that should keep the lawyers away from my assets.
As stated earlier,without a third party
inspection,it's just your records for your defense.At this point it becomes a he says/they say.
My vote is for the third party testing to keep it out of litigation,and save on defense charges.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:59 AM   #1517
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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how are they going to ban fiberglass? it's still being sold, if you wear a mask you aren't really harming yourself. just itchy. are they going to FORCE everyone to spend 5-6 times the amount for spray foam?

It is going to be treated similar to RRP. They are after the old, black stuff with larger chunks of glass in it.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:17 AM   #1518
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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...Let's see some TV commercials!

Maybe pouring hot, molten lead over some babies or something...

better yet..some animals suffering and dying in the yard, while the painter runs his disc sander in the background.
The reality of their campaign isn't too far from that:

http://www.leadfreekids.org/

http://www.leadfreekids.org/psa/Bann...py_160x600.swf





http://www.leadfreekids.org/psa/Prin...lpg%20news.pdf
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:29 AM   #1519
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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Doesn't really matter. The day is hear. The rule is in effect and there is likely no chance of it getting repealed. .
I wouldn't agree with that at all.

All it takes is something as simple as a new administration being in place and the ground work laid prior to raise the awareness in Washington that the RRP is wrong and with a few pen strokes or a Republican the whole thing is nothing but a bad memory.

I don't see too many people who have taken the 2 minutes it takes to send a notice to washington by using this: Click here to let Washington know you disagree with the EPA’s RRP

People should stop bitching and start acting.

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Old 04-22-2010, 09:34 AM   #1520
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Mike, the link is no good.

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