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New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

 
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:50 PM   #501
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


some useful info

http://www.hbaofmetroorlando.com/sit...0Questions.pdf
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:02 PM   #502
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrWright View Post
http://www.kansas.com/news/story/1142477.html

"New lead regulations may raise home remodeling costs"


http://www.wicz.com/news2005/viewarticle.asp?a=12374

"EPA's New Lead Law to go into Effect"
Chris - I love the first artical. It will hit our facebook page in the next couple days.

The second artical seems to distort the facts a bit Not sure how to use unless we're just scaring them. Maybe we need to scare HO's into using certified contractors?
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:07 PM   #503
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanski View Post
hey guys,

I upgraded vacs this spring for personal health, protecting my clients, and in anticipation of this new law...

I super highly recommend this vacuum, it's got the .3 micron main filter, the 5 ply insert bags are ridiculous (equal to the shopvac's hepa filter), you can get a 25' hose and still suck up 16 penny framing nails with it, never had a in-hose clog, and it can suck up wet/dry at the same time, keeping the filter dry w/o having to change out anything inside the vac... this feature alone is so wicked, imagine vacuuming drywall dust and wet slurry at the same time...

this thing is badass, I used it all summer and it's just WICKED and compliant with all the new lead rules, they have all the adapters for going to 1 1/2" for attaching tools, and a shroud you can attach to grinders for re-tuck pointing, cutting concrete drain pipes, etc...

it's squat and hard to knock over, durable, easy connections, not very loud at all...

best tool i bought in a long time, 5 stars

if you are looking to upgrade this is the way man...

I use one of these coupled with a 3M half-mask respirator with P100 filters, anything less is just gambling with your health... there are plenty of good respirators but the 3M's silicone face piece is more comfy and has a nice tight but soft fit around your nose...

http://www.dustlesstechnologies.com/hepavacuum.htm

protect yourself! my .02

peace,
jordan
Just ordered one of these . Looks like a nice bit of kit and far cheaper than many other HEPA branded Vacs and looks like it has some pretty cool features. I was going to go for the CT 33 HEPA but come across some not so great reviews. Found nothing but praise for the Dustless technologies vac though. whats annoying though is you cant just buy the cheaper model thats exactly the same and just install the Hepa filter as the EPA will not accept that as a tested vac even though it's exactly the same vac. They will only allow a Vac that has been tested then assigned it's own model number as a EPA certified vac. Whats that all about.
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:38 PM   #504
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


I just found this site and this is a good discussion. I'll be happy to help with some of the questions and issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
You cant test every single surface and layer your going to be working on. I paint my house once every 3 years. In the last 30 years it has had over 10 layers of different paint on every surface. I have worked on houses that have had 4 layers of wallpaper, 1-12 layers of paint and 2 layers of plaster on single walls. Thats on a house less than 150 years old. The houses we worked on that were older had worse layering than this.
Good news - you can indeed test every layer, and it is easy. Forget the swab tests. You need a good consultant in your area to come and perform a lead survey using an XRF machine. It is an expensive device which uses a small radioactive source to excite the lead atoms, and measures the fluorescense (XRF = X-Ray Fluorescense). It will read through as many layers of paint and wallpaper as are present, as well as through thin materials such as hardboard and asbestos-cement shingles. There is no damage whatsoever, and it gives a result in a few seconds at each test location. Watch out for any company which claims to do lead consulting, but which does not own an XRF. The machines cost $15,000 to $30,000, but any good consultant uses one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy110 View Post
So use that to your advantage. Ask the customer, "Have the other companies told you about this?" If not " What else haven't they told you?"
Cast a shadow of doubt and drive it home. Tell them it's federal law and you oblidged to inform them of this. It's their right to know. Then explain how you, the professional, will handle the clean up, notification, and lead testing necessary.
Exactly! I'll be speaking at the RIA convention in March in Atlanta, and that is one of the points in my presentation. Rather than a nuisance, the new regulations are an opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiteams View Post
what can you do when there are other contractors in the area who are not following the RRP Rule? Working side by side with other contractors is going to be a problem.
Thoroughly document your work with notes and photos, and make it clear what you did and did not do at the job site. You should talk with your attorney regarding other actions you may want to take to protect yourself. Of course, the others may not know about RRP, so telling them might be doing them a favor, and will tell you if they are willfully violating the regulations.

It is important to remember that OSHA (and in places such as California the state OSHA) also regulates lead. Their regulations cover any amount of lead above zero (yes, zero). Therefore, it is important to get up to speed on their regulations, including the respiratory protection standard, and to buy some personal pumps and lead cassettes and get your exposure assessment database (paper or computer) organized.

While the EPA regulations focus on pre-1978 buildings, lead paint usage tapered-off sharply after the 1950s, as latex paints replaced oil-based paints. Even in the old houses built in the 1900 to 1930 generally only have lead paint (=>1.0 mg/square centimeter) on exterior wood, and perhaps interior woodwork. You can find lead paint on walls and ceilings, but it is far less common. Therefore, you may be pleasantly surprised by the results of the lead survey.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:37 PM   #505
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


The biggest factor i have found which didn't affect me as it was on my own house was Time $$$! It's taking me almost 3-4x as long too demo than it normally would with much more hassle. It took me over 1.5 hours set up a sealed area and get to the point i was ready to work. It then took me 20 Min's to pull down 3 walls of drywall and 1 ceiling in a 220sqft room and remove nails then over an hour to bag , seal and dump the bags. Normally i would steam through that in 20 Min's and vacuum up after but now i have to tit arse around and still end up vacuuming after and still have to tear down the sealed area and clean up!! So in all a job that would normally take me about 40 Min's to an hour took me over 4 hours

It's second nature to for me now. It used to be a B**ch when first started doing abatement work. Like anything you learn shortcuts and faster ways to do things. Here's my latest plaster job and containment.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:46 PM   #506
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Quote:
Originally Posted by FStephenMasek View Post
I just found this site and this is a good discussion. I'll be happy to help with some of the questions and issues.

Good news - you can indeed test every layer, and it is easy. Forget the swab tests. You need a good consultant in your area to come and perform a lead survey using an XRF machine. It is an expensive device which uses a small radioactive source to excite the lead atoms, and measures the fluorescense (XRF = X-Ray Fluorescense). It will read through as many layers of paint and wallpaper as are present, as well as through thin materials such as hardboard and asbestos-cement shingles. There is no damage whatsoever, and it gives a result in a few seconds at each test location. Watch out for any company which claims to do lead consulting, but which does not own an XRF. The machines cost $15,000 to $30,000, but any good consultant uses one.

Exactly! I'll be speaking at the RIA convention in March in Atlanta, and that is one of the points in my presentation. Rather than a nuisance, the new regulations are an opportunity.

Thoroughly document your work with notes and photos, and make it clear what you did and did not do at the job site. You should talk with your attorney regarding other actions you may want to take to protect yourself. Of course, the others may not know about RRP, so telling them might be doing them a favor, and will tell you if they are willfully violating the regulations.

It is important to remember that OSHA (and in places such as California the state OSHA) also regulates lead. Their regulations cover any amount of lead above zero (yes, zero). Therefore, it is important to get up to speed on their regulations, including the respiratory protection standard, and to buy some personal pumps and lead cassettes and get your exposure assessment database (paper or computer) organized.

While the EPA regulations focus on pre-1978 buildings, lead paint usage tapered-off sharply after the 1950s, as latex paints replaced oil-based paints. Even in the old houses built in the 1900 to 1930 generally only have lead paint (=>1.0 mg/square centimeter) on exterior wood, and perhaps interior woodwork. You can find lead paint on walls and ceilings, but it is far less common. Therefore, you may be pleasantly surprised by the results of the lead survey.
I need to start with an apology - Sorry FSteven but your post will be the target of my rant.

"Good news -"

First of all - there is absolutely no GOOD NEWS about any of this! Zip, zero, nada, none! The only way you could possibly say there is GOOD NEWS, is by getting on this site and telling us the EPA is going to drop this thing.

"You can indeed test every layer".

Do you understand that a possitive test is the "kiss-of-death" for a property's value? Why would I or any other remodeler even think about bringing you and your x-ray machine - swab - or any other testing device into a home? Testing of any sort is the most ridiculous thing you can even suggest or try to justify.

"Exactly... the new regulations are an opportunity"

The only opportunity here is for the lucky ones - who - don't follow the law and don't get caught! This law would have been so much more an opportunity, if they had split the fine 50-50 with the homeowner being the other 50. The way this is written - the HO is actually rewarded for searching for an unethical and/or stupid contractor. They have nothing to loose and everything to gain by finding them.

"It is important to remember that OSHA (and in places such as California the state OSHA) also regulates lead. Their regulations cover any amount of lead above zero (yes, zero)."

That's comforting - I'm hoping - wishing - praying we can be just like California - it's the ultimate dream! My second choice would be Russia.

Try and save the world if you must, but stop trying to sugar coat it and sell it to me. I ain't buying it! And I'm advising my customers not to buy it either.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:47 AM   #507
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Agreed. This whole thing is to make money for the government and scare contractors into thinking they need all this special equipment. If lead paint was such a problem, contractors would be literally dying faster than we could replace them. I do believe painters who sand/scrape or burn paint off, along with floor refinishers should be the only ones that have to have some training. I do all sorts of remodels and window replacements with lots of new paint over lead paint is not going to disturb enough paint to have lead be a problem. I already use a hepa vac when cleaning up someone's room. Even with plaster demos, unless you are grinding it up inside the room. the dust that is created is from the actual plaster itself, not the lead paint which has many many coats of new paint over it, the lead is not going to be airborn. simply mask off the room so the dust isn't going throughout the house. Kids and homeowners aren't playing around us when we are doing any of this work anyways. Contractors are struggling all around the country, trying to get any lead they can on jobs, and now this is only going to raise their rates even more meaning the joemoron guy with the pos pickup and no insurance is gonna come in and get the jobs like they are already starting to do now. By the time the customer comes home even if they walk into a remodel/renovation the dust created earlier is gone at that point.
I will get certified but the whole thing is overkill and a joke. homeowners shouldnt be punished because they have a house that is older and may have lead paint 5 or more layers below the safer non lead based paint. It's a scare tactic.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:48 AM   #508
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


I fully agree with both of you. I don't see why i should have to pay the government for something i already do!!! We all know there is going to be as much enforcement as there currently is for unlicensed hacks which is none at all. The only thing good from this is the hacks are going to get more work and no matter how much you try and bash the other contractors cheap price and work ethics it's going to make zero difference. All the customer see's is price.
Just like a car salesman who tries to sell you his world beating extended warranty that covers you for everything. They sure do try hard but no one really wants the extra cost so no one buys it. The same will go for us trying to sell our safe lead practices.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:24 AM   #509
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


I find it difficult to sell anything that I do not believe in.

Given that we have little choice in compliance, we need to be convincing with our presentation to our potential customers.

If it is obvious that you have no conviction in your presentation, how can your customer choose you. I think FStephenMasek's attitude will yield a compelling presentation.

If you are going to do things the legal way, I recommend that you find some way to speak positively to the subject (whether it is BS or not).
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:24 AM   #510
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Everyone is preaching to the choir here.

Go tell your local media outlets about this and explain why the RRP regs are problematic.

The general public does not know any of this is looming, so it's up to us to bring this to the forefront.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:45 AM   #511
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


My site members have been pro active on this for a couple of months. We have a letter for congressman and other officials. Its done and its been edited over the last 2 weekss.

On top of that we had a webinar Wedsnday which is on our site and we have an insurance agent who has been involved in this since the early 90's for a webinar in another week. That will bring more bad news.

I don't think Nathan would like me to post my link so if you know about us for the sake of the building industry go to my site and see what we've done so far. Everything is in the public area.

Then come back here and get the same thing going on CT.

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Old 01-23-2010, 08:48 AM   #512
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Chris great thread.. you have been on this for a minute.. had no idea.

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Old 01-23-2010, 08:50 AM   #513
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Paul,

I can't find the letter on your site despite looking.

PM the link if you don't mind.
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:47 AM   #514
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


[QUOTE=DaVinciRemodel;857250]First of all - there is absolutely no GOOD NEWS about any of this! Zip, zero, nada, none! The only way you could possibly say there is GOOD NEWS, is by getting on this site and telling us the EPA is going to drop this thing.

I agree, following this is going to be a pain in the ...

I've thrown my rants at this new law myself. However, the good news is the one child that doesn't get permanent damage from lead poisoning. Not sure if it will be 1 child in 1,000,000 saved ... 1 child in 100,000 saved or 1 child in 10,000 saved.

As I mentioned before, I have 2 grandchildren living in older homes. Before I found out about the law ... I would have worked like normal. Now, I will take precautions.

Just because I'm going to follow the law, doesn't mean I have to like it ... so rant away ... and I will be with you! However, there are some good things about the new law ... one being ... protecting my grandbabies
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:56 AM   #515
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


I see this as a opportunity. The new laws and guidelines are as usual over the top for the government but write all the congressmen you want, you know the government. I guess I've done it for so long that it's second nature to me and doesn't add that much time or cost and I work in such a more clean environment. For me it's a marketing opportunity to get a leg up on my competition.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:13 AM   #516
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


I think where the new law went really south, is when they took out the "opt-out" provision. Previously, the homeowner could make the decision of accepting the higher cost of compliance or not (except if they had kids).
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:19 AM   #517
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


If the EPA really is serious about protecting the children then they should also
stand at the ports where all the lead and cadium laden toys are imported
into our country and fine the likes of Wall Mart and others bring in and sell these
products here.

These are more likely to become the culprits in poisoning.
Shouldn't they all be tested before they even hit the market?

If we have to do the tests and take precautions for the "sins" of the past,
why shouldn't they be responsible for adding
something that goes directly into the hands of the ones we're trying to protect.

I can understand the whole "work safely and cleanly"requirements,
but,there is a whole other industry out there adding poisons ,and needs to be addressed
as adamantly as the trades have been.

Here's the Chinese interpretation of how they justify their products:

nal and local business, finance and economy news
Best of Business, Breaking News, Business, Economy, Environment, Finance » China jewelry makers say toxic metal cuts costs

By The Associated Press

January 12, 2010, 7:10PM

YIWU, China -- For China's low-cost jewelry makers, it was an open trade secret: The metal cadmium is shiny, strong and malleable at low temperatures. And it's cheap.

Jeff Weidenhamer, Ashland University/The Associated PressCharms on a “Best Friends” bracelet sold at Claire’s contained high concentrations of cadmium, according to testing organized by The Associated Press. The jewelry and accessories store, with nearly 3,000 locations in North America and Europe, became the second major retailer to pull products containing the toxic metal. Despite the health hazards, manufacturers in factories ringing this city on China's east coast say their top priority is profit. So offering cut-rate goods often means using lower quality materials, including cadmium, which is known to cause cancer.

"Business is business, and it's all up to our client," said He Huihua, manager of the Suiyuan Jewelry Shop at International Trade City in Yiwu, a sprawling wholesale mecca where sellers pitch their wares in hopes of landing a lucrative export contract.

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Old 01-23-2010, 10:42 AM   #518
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Quote:
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The biggest factor i have found which didn't affect me as it was on my own house was Time $$$! It's taking me almost 3-4x as long too demo than it normally would with much more hassle. It took me over 1.5 hours set up a sealed area and get to the point i was ready to work. It then took me 20 Min's to pull down 3 walls of drywall and 1 ceiling in a 220sqft room and remove nails then over an hour to bag , seal and dump the bags. Normally i would steam through that in 20 Min's and vacuum up after but now i have to tit arse around and still end up vacuuming after and still have to tear down the sealed area and clean up!! So in all a job that would normally take me about 40 Min's to an hour took me over 4 hours

It's second nature to for me now. It used to be a B**ch when first started doing abatement work. Like anything you learn shortcuts and faster ways to do things. Here's my latest plaster job and containment.

what kind of cost was this set up for you? Can you give any specifics on it? If not in the open forum, please PM me man.. looks awesome!
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:25 AM   #519
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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what kind of cost was this set up for you? Can you give any specifics on it? If not in the open forum, please PM me man.. looks awesome!

I've already had several PM's as to speeding up the process. I'll PM you n'Eighter but I'm going to write a article for distribution for SEO on my website and will post or do something like that for all to see. CT's given me so much information that I have no problem giving back. I have 5 years+ of trade knowledge in the lead abatement game and can cut your man hours quite a bit by some tricks I've picked up along the way.

On a different tack I don't mean to be self promoting but if you'd like visit my website and see how I'm TRYING to use the changes for advertising my company. I know, the wording needs work but like any good businessman I'm trying to turn a bad thing into a good thing for me. Visit dust free remodeling.

Just looked at my post and if the mods have any problem with self promotion I'll take down the post. I really don't mean to self promote but just trying to help us re modelers.

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Old 01-23-2010, 11:30 AM   #520
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Greg I will PM you with the draft, if this can be done as an industry then it may be good. I am committed to not using this for personal gain but instead for our industry.

Can we work together as a group and not as this forum or that?

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