New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This - Page 119 - Lead RRP Discussion - Contractor Talk

New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This

 
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:06 PM   #2361
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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next time i have the flu i going the read this thread all 2347 posts, or i may reads it from the cardiac unit while i get me a tripple.

Me too
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:34 PM   #2362
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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You do realize that the link ... SBA, supports the RRP for children and pregnant women, don't you? They are saying do this for the children ... just not on adults.

You give a link that goes against what you believe and you use it to support your position?
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:37 PM   #2363
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


maybe it's a cunning tactical maneuver
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:49 AM   #2364
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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Whoa. I was more or less with you until this. Lead is an additive; not found in gasoline unless it's purposely put there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead
Yeah I realize it was an additive--but my point is that just because they quit putting it in gasoline doesn't mean that all the lead that was spewed out in years past has just vanished. This statement was made at a New England chapter meeting of the Lead and Environmental Health Association. “ An environmental engineer at the meeting told us that keeping the home clean—and specifically using wet methods to do so—is far more effective in preventing lead poisoning than RRP work practices. He also said that even homes without any lead in them show contamination, particularly in densely populated areas, because the contamination comes in with the occupants from outside the home. His opinion was that teaching parents how to clean their homes and encouraging them to actually keep them clean would greatly reduce the number of lead-poisoned children”. http://www.remodeling.hw.net/blogs/p...logId...PostId...
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:04 AM   #2365
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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I don't want you to assume anything. In fact, I want you to stop assuming and start using facts.

You've mentioned remodeling rising while lead poisoning declining in reference to RRP. You are making assumptions and they are wild assumptions. You are assuming lead poisoning from renovations by contractors dropped (using the CDC chart).

You also assumed the increase of remodeling homes (chart) were where the majority of homes had lead based paint in them.

Both assumptions have no fact. You simply don't know that a decline of lead poisoning from renovations by contractors happened during a time when remodeling went up on homes that had lead based paint.

You are trying to fool folks with your assumptions. Sounds good ... but all assumptions.

will talk about the other stuff in a different post
Well then put down your pom-poms and go thru your flip chart and tell me specifically how many children have ebll's caused specifically by remodeling, in that all other possible causes were ruled out. I really dont think exploring all sides of an issue is in any way trying to fool folks.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:12 PM   #2366
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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Well then put down your pom-poms and go thru your flip chart and tell me specifically how many children have ebll's caused specifically by remodeling, in that all other possible causes were ruled out. I really dont think exploring all sides of an issue is in any way trying to fool folks.
It would take 250 pages to explain the following. From using the following understanding …

1. Keeping with the time period of the charts you like to use (roughly 1997 to 2009)
2. Using 5 ug/dl as a “injured by lead” level.
3. Using the studies available and getting the insight of lead risk assessors (who are the only folks that determine how the child got lead poisoned)
4. And a variety of other factors

BOTH of the following statements would be close to accurate

Statement 1: Contractors would have harmed around 1,000 children per week. If the non-certified contractor disturbed components that had lead based paint and there were children under the age of 5 living in the home … there is around a 50% chance that the child would be lead poisoned.

Statement 2: Non-certified contractors cause about 2% of the lead poisoning of children during the time period mentioned.

Use statement 1 if you are concerned about lead poisoning children. Use statement 2 if you want to get rid of RRP. HOWEVER … both statements are one and the same.
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Last edited by hiteams; 06-09-2012 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:43 PM   #2367
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


hmm...the 1000 a week sounds like alot but the 2% hardly sounds like anything
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #2368
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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hmm...the 1000 a week sounds like alot but the 2% hardly sounds like anything
Yeh! It's kind of like hearing one side talk about how many jobs have been lost, while the other side talks about how many jobs have been created. Both can be right technically. But to actually figure out if something is good or bad, you have to understand the details
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:17 PM   #2369
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


Generally speaking ... The more profit you make the less safety and legal conscious you should be. The more safety and legal conscious you are ... the less profit you will have.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:11 PM   #2370
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


[QUOTE=hiteams;1512206]3. Using the studies available and getting the insight of lead risk assessors (who are the only folks that determine how the child got lead poisoned)

Studies and insight from lead risk assesors--kinda sounds like a weather forecast. The following statement was made: “ Researchers tested over 100 women's handbags and detected lead in over 75 percent of the bags analyzed. Sixty-four percent of the bags contained lead over 300 parts per million � the Consumer Product Safety Council's limit for lead in children's products. Over half of the handbags contained more than 1,000 ppm lead.” http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/sep2...09-16-092.html Unless the risk assesors tested a child before a remodeling project was started, and everything that child came in contact with during the remodel project, to absolutely rule out other possible causes of contamination, then you are asking me to make the assumption that remodeling was the only possible cause of exposure in those cases. Hmm When I give you facts and figures to compare that dont support your opinion of the rule, you call it assumption. But you expect me to accept the assumption that remodeling is responsible for 1000 per week based on studies and insight??? Not buying it. “ Researchers tested over 100 women's handbags and detected lead in over 75 percent of the bags analyzed. Sixty-four percent of the bags contained lead over 300 parts per million � the Consumer Product Safety Council's limit for lead in children's products. How many children were exposed just because of lead exposure from handbags-- and the exposure was then assumed to be caused by the remodeling industry?
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:40 AM   #2371
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


[QUOTE=Ray C;1512433]
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Researchers tested over 100 women's handbags and detected lead in over 75 percent of the bags analyzed.
handbags.

On that note, I think it's time to leave the debate. In fact, I think it's time for me to leave the board.

handbags.
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:13 AM   #2372
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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Generally speaking ... The more profit you make the less safety and legal conscious you should be. The more safety and legal conscious you are ... the less profit you will have.
I think it's really a marketing and sales opportunity. With some somewhat specialized equipment, you can market "dust free" remodeling, whether there is lead paint or not. It's really an opportunity, IMHO. People just have to have the tools and techniques to support it in an effective, efficient way. I'd actually rather see the discussion go in this direction than they way it has been going,
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:10 PM   #2373
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Re: New EPA RRP Rule Takes Effect April 2010--ALL Trades Need To Understand This


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Generally speaking ... The more profit you make the less safety and legal conscious you should be. The more safety and legal conscious you are ... the less profit you will have.
More profit until the big fines and jail time....

I see the same thing with wanna-be "investors" doing contract sales and all kinds of other things. They think they are making out good until something goes wrong.

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