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Lead Effects?

 
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Old 07-25-2011, 12:59 PM   #1
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Lead Effects?


To all those who are on the "Other" side of the fence, what Lead Effects should I be looking for in anyone exposed to Lead Dust?

I have a close friend who painted Professionally for 50 years. He started in 1960 and just retired in 2010. For those who may remember, he is the one who called all this Lead Business a bunch of BS.

Anyway, he is now 73 years old and about 95% of all his jobs were in houses built before 1978. He has always been in good health, has a good memory and still keeps active keeping his yard up, running his farm tractor and periodically working on his 100 acres of land. Also goes to about 6 to 8 Nascar races yearly which, as many will know, requires a lot of walking.

I don't see any difference in him, compared to someone who worked no where near Lead Dust. Actually he has out worked and out lived many of those who were not exposed.

So I ask the question....

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Old 07-25-2011, 08:11 PM   #2
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Re: Lead Effects?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Remodeler View Post
To all those who are on the "Other" side of the fence, what Lead Effects should I be looking for in anyone exposed to Lead Dust?

I have a close friend who painted Professionally for 50 years. He started in 1960 and just retired in 2010. For those who may remember, he is the one who called all this Lead Business a bunch of BS.

Anyway, he is now 73 years old and about 95% of all his jobs were in houses built before 1978. He has always been in good health, has a good memory and still keeps active keeping his yard up, running his farm tractor and periodically working on his 100 acres of land. Also goes to about 6 to 8 Nascar races yearly which, as many will know, requires a lot of walking.

I don't see any difference in him, compared to someone who worked no where near Lead Dust. Actually he has out worked and out lived many of those who were not exposed.

So I ask the question....
Ya!
I wanna know also.
And not the brainwashing governments stats and BS.
Come on someone PLEASE tell us the truth.

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Old 07-25-2011, 10:25 PM   #3
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Re: Lead Effects?


VA,

I'll try to give a little insight, but have to take it in steps.

I had a relative that smoked his entire life, died at 92.

I had a friend who smoked, but died at 36 from lung cancer.

Is smoking healthy for you? Bad for you? Or neutral (not bad or good)?

Would you agree that if we want to see the "big picture", we can't look at 1 example, but we would need to look at thousands of examples?
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:10 PM   #4
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Re: Lead Effects?


Most common effects of lead in older males, High blood pressure, loss of hair & sex drive.
Its covered in the EPA RRP lead cert class.

Now the first 2 I can see but it would seem to me that if you get enough lead in the right place #3 wouldn't be a problum
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:13 PM   #5
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Re: Lead Effects?


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Originally Posted by SAW.co View Post
Most common effects of lead in older males, High blood pressure, loss of hair & sex drive.
Its covered in the EPA RRP lead cert class.

Now the first 2 I can see but it would seem to me that if you get enough lead in the right place #3 wouldn't be a problum
All BS aside the symptoms are hard to spot & do coincide with getting older the only real way to know is to have a blood scan.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:17 AM   #6
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Re: Lead Effects?


It's not just about the person working on it. The ones most susceptible to it are kids. Once it gets in the body, lots of bad stuff happens.

Like stunted growth, liver failure, decreased brain function, etc. We live in an old home that is filled with it and we poisoned our youngest when we did some work. It's bad ****, so don't think it is just nothing.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:07 AM   #7
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Re: Lead Effects?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hiteams View Post

I had a relative that smoked his entire life, died at 92.

I had a friend who smoked, but died at 36 from lung cancer.

Is smoking healthy for you? Bad for you? Or neutral (not bad or good)?

Would you agree that if we want to see the "big picture", we can't look at 1 example, but we would need to look at thousands of examples?
I understand what you are saying, but it looks like you are agreeing that not all will get effected by Lead Dust exposure. I remember you giving an example once of a grown man ending up in an ambulance in just one exposure. My friend must have had 10,000 exposures. Out of coincidence he was also a Rescue Squad worker and knows his medical.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:11 AM   #8
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Re: Lead Effects?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SAW.co View Post
Most common effects of lead in older males, High blood pressure, loss of hair & sex drive.
Well if my friend's actions somewhat equal his talk about it, he has no problem there with #3, lol.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:48 AM   #9
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Re: Lead Effects?


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Originally Posted by KentWhitten View Post
It's not just about the person working on it. The ones most susceptible to it are kids. Once it gets in the body, lots of bad stuff happens.

Like stunted growth, liver failure, decreased brain function, etc. We live in an old home that is filled with it and we poisoned our youngest when we did some work. It's bad ****, so don't think it is just nothing.
Kent, Sorry to hear of your problems. But my basic point is the "Opt Out Rule" where no young kids are present (they can raise the age limit if they want to). I recently wrote a scenario about a 90 year old man living alone on 200 acres. I am still subject to be fined $37,500 Per Day if I don't play by the rules (just by doing 7 Sq Ft of inside work). That is what I'm against, as well as the priciple of it.

Also, I want the American public to be educated about the effects in kids and what it will do to them, first. I want the government to educate us (although it's too late now, they spent the money in the wrong place). I want to see the Medical Industry have a national campaign on it. I want to see it on the wall of my doctors' office while I'm in the waiting room. I want to see it on shows like the Doctors on TV, as well as many other informative shows out there.

Where do I get most of my info on it? Right on this forum. By many who are not in the Medical profession and by some who also have a conflict of interest.

Bill
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:09 PM   #10
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Re: Lead Effects?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Remodeler View Post
I understand what you are saying, but it looks like you are agreeing that not all will get effected by Lead Dust exposure.
At least I will agree that everyone is not affected the same way. You could be right that some could not be affected, while others are. I don't know the answer, so I won't play like I do.

There are many variables that come into play, that will determine how badly a person will be affected. Some of these are age, male or female, weight, body make-up, recent eating, particle size, type of lead, lead content, inhaled or ingested and many others.

This also plays a role in your original question ... Lead Effects. If you are an infant it will affect you differently than if you are an adult painter.

I personally have a low absorption rate. If I take a 10 hydrocodone pill it barely helps. My friend can take a 2.5 hydrocodone pain pill and he will feel "high" and painless . Give a infant a 2.5 hydrocodone and they will be in severe trouble.

Just because I take a 10 hydrocodone ... doesn't mean it will affect everyone the same way.

Lead is similar, depending on the variables.

Quote:
I remember you giving an example once of a grown man ending up in an ambulance in just one exposure.
This was an example of swallowing a small fishing weight. An adult male can do this. But grind up the small fishing weight into a fine dust and swallow it ... this adult male will die.

Variables.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:18 PM   #11
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Re: Lead Effects?


VA,

From some of your other post, I take it that you see the need of RRP for kids. Is that correct?

Do you see the need for women who are pregnant?

Do you see the need for women who will become pregnant?

Knowing this, will help me answer some questions.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:21 PM   #12
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Re: Lead Effects?


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VA,

From some of your other post, I take it that you see the need of RRP for kids. Is that correct?

Do you see the need for women who are pregnant?

Do you see the need for women who will become pregnant?

Knowing this, will help me answer some questions.
I acknowledge, and have acknowledged, that younger kids (not real sure on the age limit) need to be protected from Lead in general. RRP, the way it has been handled and how it was presented, no. Maybe a form of RRP done correctly, fairly and with common sense, yes.

Pregnant woman, same as above. Women who will become pregnant, I'm not a doctor and would like to see national organzation of doctors answer those questions.

But, as you should well know, my basic opposition is not having the Opt Out Rule. The Opt Out Rule covers young kids and pregnant woman. Whether it needs to be tweeked or not should be up to a national doctors organization.

I appreciate your efforts, but not having a professional medical panel probably will not convince me not having the Opt Out Rule, as well as other medical concerns. You mentioned smoking. We all know what smoking can do to us. Besides common sense, we have seen many, many studies, reports, and an untold number of pictures of lungs and internals, etc. In comparison, concerning Lead, the government owes us this kind of information, if what they are trying to accomplish is true, instead of throwing their weight around inside a private home and before shoving rediculous fines down our throats, where there isn't a child or a pregnant woman within miles. Not only is it unfair, it is un-American.
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Old 07-26-2011, 06:34 PM   #13
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Re: Lead Effects?


VA,

Everything you want (doctors, panel of doctors, pictures ... etc.) is out there. And is out there on the affect on adults.

Some of my favorites ...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866835/

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...20434/abstract

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/olpp...management.pdf

http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/f....1289/ehp.9782
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:35 PM   #14
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Re: Lead Effects?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Remodeler View Post
he is now 73
He's supposed to live to 84 but if he doesn't it may be hard to prove it was lead.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:51 PM   #15
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Re: Lead Effects?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Remodeler View Post
Kent, Sorry to hear of your problems. But my basic point is the "Opt Out Rule" where no young kids are present (they can raise the age limit if they want to). I recently wrote a scenario about a 90 year old man living alone on 200 acres. I am still subject to be fined $37,500 Per Day if I don't play by the rules (just by doing 7 Sq Ft of inside work). That is what I'm against, as well as the priciple of it.

Also, I want the American public to be educated about the effects in kids and what it will do to them, first. I want the government to educate us (although it's too late now, they spent the money in the wrong place). I want to see the Medical Industry have a national campaign on it. I want to see it on the wall of my doctors' office while I'm in the waiting room. I want to see it on shows like the Doctors on TV, as well as many other informative shows out there.

Where do I get most of my info on it? Right on this forum. By many who are not in the Medical profession and by some who also have a conflict of interest.

Bill
I don't disagree that this RRP stuff is a PITA. What I would like to point out though is that (with your example) even though there are no kids there NOW, there may be later. Maybe the house is getting fixed up to sell. Maybe the grand kids are coming over later. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:11 PM   #16
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Re: Lead Effects?


and according to the EPA, if you do the work yourself on your own home - or someone does it for you for free- then the rules don't apply.
So, do the effects of lead only take place when money changes hands?
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Old 07-26-2011, 09:54 PM   #17
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Re: Lead Effects?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Remodeler View Post
...close friend who painted Professionally for 50 years....95% of all his jobs were in houses built before 1978....
Lead-based paint is rare in residences consructed 1960 to 1978 (we've yet to find one where more than 1% of the painted surface area is coated with lead-based paint), and far from everywhere in older buildings (e.g. a 1928 stucco apartment with LBP on the exterior and interior wood, but just 19% of teh walls and ceilings). His exposure may not have been high.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:50 AM   #18
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Re: Lead Effects?


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Lead-based paint is rare in residences consructed 1960 to 1978 (we've yet to find one where more than 1% of the painted surface area is coated with lead-based paint), and far from everywhere in older buildings (e.g. a 1928 stucco apartment with LBP on the exterior and interior wood, but just 19% of teh walls and ceilings). His exposure may not have been high.
Appreciate the reply. Glad to hear that info. But my friend very rarely worked in new contruction. Most of his customers owned houses that were from the 1890's to the 1950's.

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Old 07-27-2011, 07:27 AM   #19
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Re: Lead Effects?


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I don't disagree that this RRP stuff is a PITA. What I would like to point out though is that (with your example) even though there are no kids there NOW, there may be later. Maybe the house is getting fixed up to sell. Maybe the grand kids are coming over later. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
That sounds very possible but is it proven to be absolute true? That's my point. I don't want the government to tell me through threats and arm twisting, I want to see an indept study on it and it presented to the American people publically. So publically that the average person get's tired of watching it, kind of like the non-smoking campaign.

This way, instead of a few people trying to convice me on all the details, all of the American public would know. Know what is true and what is overkill. Know what to do and what not to worry about. How would I determine success? When I mention it to my customers and instead of trying to educate them on medical details (and I am not a doctor), they would be telling me "Yes sir, not only do I want it and willing to pay for it, I insist on it"!!

Bill
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:50 AM   #20
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Re: Lead Effects?


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VA,
Everything you want (doctors, panel of doctors, pictures ... etc.) is out there. And is out there on the affect on adults.
Some of my favorites ...

Dean,

Appreciate the info, although the last two would not open and actually locked up my computer. I'll try to read up on the first two when time allows. But even if I read it all and possibly get convinced on what you are trying to tell me, that would only be half my point.

The other half is the American public.

Refer to my reply to Kent above (Post #19)

Bill

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