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Working At A State Prison.

 
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:17 PM   #21
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Good advice from Griz.

Is there a clause in the sub-contractor contract (between you and the GC) that binds you to the terms of the main contract (between the GC and the owner)?

If it is a blanket statement, then you end up assuming the terms laid out in the main contract whether you read through that contract or not.

Alternately, if you are only bound by the info provided by the GC, then you are well within your rights to charge more for the extra ingress/egress times as this would now be a change order to the original sub-contracting agreement which did not have any specs on these security requirements.

BTW, the blanket acceptance of terms in a GC-owner contract is not a clause that any sub-contractor would want to accept without having some safeguards in place. Otherwise, the sub could be bidding on terms that have been replaced by addenda that the GC did not forward on to the sub. Any breakdown in the information chain should fall back onto the GC and not the sub.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:18 PM   #22
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
Access, Egress & site working condition should have been noted under "General Conditions" ...If you did not see them you definitely have a bone to pick. Good Luck



Yes, just ask my wife & daughter...
Yes, they conveniently left those pages out. Normally not a problem unless you happen to be working at a JAIL
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:23 PM   #23
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


You should probably leave your contraband at home too.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:23 PM   #24
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrix View Post
Good advice from Griz.

Is there a clause in the sub-contractor contract (between you and the GC) that binds you to the terms of the main contract (between the GC and the owner)?

If it is a blanket statement, then you end up assuming the terms laid out in the main contract whether you read through that contract or not.

Alternately, if you are only bound by the info provided by the GC, then you are well within your rights to charge more for the extra ingress/egress times as this would now be a change order to the original sub-contracting agreement which did not have any specs on these security requirements.

BTW, the blanket acceptance of terms in a GC-owner contract is not a clause that any sub-contractor would want to accept without having some safeguards in place. Otherwise, the sub could be bidding on terms that have been replaced by addenda that the GC did not forward on to the sub. Any breakdown in the information chain should fall back onto the GC and not the sub.
Good information, but I haven't started the project yet, don't think it will get all legal at this point. If you ask me the GC was misrepresenting his project and concerns me from the start. Worked with these guys years ago haven't recently for a reason.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:25 PM   #25
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


[QUOTE=WarnerConstInc.;1553139]You should probably leave your contraband at home too.[/QUOTE

How about firearms?
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:27 PM   #26
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


[QUOTE=jmacd;1553142]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. View Post
You should probably leave your contraband at home too.[/QUOTE

How about fire arms?

Wait till you try and explain what a Ramset is....
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:12 AM   #27
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Did they tell you not to drop the tools?
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:30 AM   #28
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


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Did they tell you not to drop the tools?
Thats soap Greg. I am getting ready to do a large community shower in a mens prison here is dayton. I think its somewhat of a half way house but the inmates cant leave and most the people staying there have facial tattoos. I bid the crap out of that job in hopes we would be disqualified but apparently the state of ohio can afford it. I plan to set up zip walls defining our space everyday. Anybody not on the crew that passes the zip wall will have to deal with mr estwing. The advice about wearing different color pants is priceless.
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:31 AM   #29
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Double post. One last thing. No hack saws..
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:28 PM   #30
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


State contract..unlikely he will get a change order for this...its like working on a military base..how can you not assume a loss of time?....he is beat..and under contract....and his bond will now have to pay out if hr tires to bail or underperform..

yo sir..are beat...ignore the4 fairy tale comments..this is the game you play when dealing with Gvt...especially the stae..but hey..the sun shines a dogs ass sometimes...


good luck
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:53 PM   #31
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


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State contract..unlikely he will get a change order for this...its like working on a military base..how can you not assume a loss of time?....he is beat..and under contract....and his bond will now have to pay out if hr tires to bail or underperform..

yo sir..are beat...ignore the4 fairy tale comments..this is the game you play when dealing with Gvt...especially the stae..but hey..the sun shines a dogs ass sometimes...


good luck
You sir don't read or comprehend what you read well. Slow down and read before you comment, thanks. I am a sub contractor not prime. Stated that already. Thanks for the post though.

Last edited by jmacd; 08-06-2012 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:19 PM   #32
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Since you were not given the "General Conditions", that will obviously affect your costs...and even if you did know of them would have been difficult to to quantify a cost do to the many variables.

Try negotiating with the GC about an hourly charge for access egress costs. Pretty good bet the GC knows about the potential delays...

The same thing as when you bid a job then deal with additional work not covered in the original scope.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:09 PM   #33
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacd View Post
You sir don't read or comprehend what you read well. Slow down and read before you comment, thanks. I am a sub contractor not prime. Stated that already. Thanks for the post though.

ok..no problem..please keep us updated on your progress..=)
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:29 PM   #34
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacd
We received a contract to do some site work at a state prison. What I found out after the price was set is the problems involved in working at one of these.

What i have been told is all equipment is to be moved outside the fence every night. This is to include a dozer, excavator etc. They have steel tracks so you just don't drive them out. I was also informed that the dump truck has to be checked every time we enter or leave, could take 15 to 30 minutes to do so. This job is about 40 trips through the gates. What I have added up is about 3 extra days with two guys for all the extra at rate pay, adds up fast.

Please tell me if any one has experienced this before and what was involved. I am thinking I need some sort of price adjustment before we start.
I have worked on a state prison, we had two guys with unpaid tickets that they found. So be prepared for thorough background checks of all your employees.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:36 PM   #35
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


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I have worked on a state prison, we had two guys with unpaid tickets that they found. So be prepared for thorough background checks of all your employees.
Good point...

They will also run a "Rap Sheet", local & national warrant check.

Anyone with a criminal background will be denied entrance.

At least that's how it is in sunny California & most other states I have heard about.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:53 PM   #36
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
Good point...

They will also run a "Rap Sheet", local & national warrant check.

Anyone with a criminal background will be denied entrance.

At least that's how it is in sunny California & most other states I have heard about.
When I was working for a commercial GC, one of our projects was remodeling the Texas Supreme Courts. Had two go to jail for traffic tickets.

Another time we were doing some renovation/repair on the Governors Mansion , one of the HVAC guys got hauled three countys over for a bench warrant. I was not on site for the second one, heard about it. I was the foreman on the Supreme Court remodel, the two with traffic warrants were granite veneer guys. The sub had to bail them out immediately, because they were the only guys he had capable of the work we needed done he said. The GC had liquidated damages of $750 a day , and our clients were the Supreme Court justices and the AG. I imagine the subs had liquidated damages to my boss.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:07 AM   #37
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


We did a fence job at a federal facillity a few years ago. Its a PITA.

45 minuets to an hour and a half to get in first thing in the morning.

Every item in the truck is counted, listed, and inventoried. That means every nail, screw, saw zall blade, everything. If you break a blade of drill bit while insid dont throw it awayyou will have to account for its whereabouts. Same deal getting back out. And they dont care if your in a hurry. You stay untill they let you out.

We had a hard time getting enough people through the background check to do the job. They will know if you got a j walking ticket.

Make sure you follow the material spec sheet. If it calls for stainless steel screws use stainless steel. They seemed to find pleasure in waiting until your all the way done with Z before they tell you that C,D and E wern't done according to spec and you have to back all the way up the beginning and start over. Its almost like its a game for them. See how far they can make you back up. I was helping another contractor do this job because most of his help was denied access. I was glad when we were through. Damn a prison.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:02 AM   #38
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Thanks guys for the resent posts. Thats the kind of stuff I was looking for. Tell me how bad it is so I can price it accordingly.

Still waiting on the complete spec book. Contract was sent back with corrections to be made. The contract price will be one of the corrections.

In a holding pattern till all this gets sorted out. I think I have a price increase worked up I plan on asking for. I priced it out the first time with some PITA included but I don't think enough.

The issues Sawdaddy mention is exactly why I am not to concerned about the GC going else where. My back ground and my employees back ground check came back OK, we are willing to put up with the BS (for a price) and work generally very competitive anyways. Not a summer braker or maker job anyways but all help.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:19 AM   #39
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
Did they tell you not to drop the tools?
Wrench-on-a-rope anyone? Interesting concept. Now I know why they made all those compo wrenches with one open end and one box-in with the same size on both ends. The closed end was good for attaching a rope if working in a jail or prison.

Sorry, a little bored here today.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:24 PM   #40
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Re: Working At A State Prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacd View Post
We received a contract to do some site work at a state prison. What I found out after the price was set is the problems involved in working at one of these.

What i have been told is all equipment is to be moved outside the fence every night. This is to include a dozer, excavator etc. They have steel tracks so you just don't drive them out. I was also informed that the dump truck has to be checked every time we enter or leave, could take 15 to 30 minutes to do so. This job is about 40 trips through the gates. What I have added up is about 3 extra days with two guys for all the extra at rate pay, adds up fast.

Please tell me if any one has experienced this before and what was involved. I am thinking I need some sort of price adjustment before we start.
Also, If you're ever asked to bid an Airforce base, it's pretty much the same deal. Complete vehicle search everytime you enter and leave and someone from the security force has to sponser and shadow you the whole time you are working in a high security zone. I can't even disclose how I know this.

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