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Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?

 
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:04 PM   #81
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by svronthmve
This post is so full of BS i don't even know where to start.... (Your perception does not necessarily make things reality! )
I started to comment, but he's too far gone I believe to convince of anything.
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:10 PM   #82
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


[QUOTE=Master Mechanic;1904762]
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktop View Post


Lol, I know I might offend a few guys in here but it's the truth.

I recently tried a new roofing sub out, on my own house. He showed up in a pickup that had an inspection sticker 2 years overdue . It also was damaged everywhere. You can't make this stuff up. Needless to say he didn't make the cut.

.
Well ...I don't guess you'll be hiring me anytime soon btw....My inspection runs out in 2015!
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:47 PM   #83
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by svronthmve View Post
This post is so full of BS i don't even know where to start....

(Your perception does not necessarily make things reality! )
You have no where to start.

Are you in Oregon?
Here:
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/trd/4241540750.html

$16-$20 an hour for a lead drywall guy.

Sorry, but in 1996 when I came to this state lead drywall guys were making $20 - $25. Now, I have to ask just how you would be able to call BS on me if you live in upstate NY and besides that why would I lay down some BS anyway?

The only thing I can see "wrong" with my post is I didn't clarify where I was.
So I'll just do that now.
In Oregon AND southwestern Washington it is as I posted.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:01 PM   #84
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendik
You have no where to start. Are you in Oregon? Here: http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/trd/4241540750.html $16-$20 an hour for a lead drywall guy. Sorry, but in 1996 when I came to this state lead drywall guys were making $20 - $25. Now, I have to ask just how you would be able to call BS on me if you live in upstate NY and besides that why would I lay down some BS anyway? The only thing I can see "wrong" with my post is I didn't clarify where I was. So I'll just do that now. In Oregon AND southwestern Washington it is as I posted.
There is a lot of guys on this forum who aren't in the union, who I can bet drive much better vehicles then you and possibly own a fleet of vehicles.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #85
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


I make more then your whole "package" plus benefits.


Union guys drive me nuts. I'm not a sheet rocker but my leads make more then you to, and they don't get laid off
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:14 PM   #86
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsconstruction
I make more then your whole "package" plus benefits. Union guys drive me nuts. I'm not a sheet rocker but my leads make more then you to, and they don't get laid off
And you pay them this because they've earned it, not because you have to? What a concept
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:15 PM   #87
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks
And you pay them this because they've earned it, not because you have to? What a concept
Absolutely, I gave it to them, and I can take it away, if need be
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:24 PM   #88
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsconstruction
Absolutely, I gave it to them, and I can take it away, if need be
So you base you guys pay on performance? Unphucking real
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Old 12-13-2013, 08:46 PM   #89
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktop View Post
Well ...I don't guess you'll be hiring me anytime soon btw....My inspection runs out in 2015!
Hilarious, my truck looks just like it. My inspection sticker expired in 02 though
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:12 AM   #90
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsconstruction View Post
I make more then your whole "package" plus benefits.


Union guys drive me nuts. I'm not a sheet rocker but my leads make more then you to, and they don't get laid off
Sure thing man.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:19 AM   #91
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendik View Post

You have no where to start.

Are you in Oregon?
Here:
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/trd/4241540750.html

$16-$20 an hour for a lead drywall guy.

Sorry, but in 1996 when I came to this state lead drywall guys were making $20 - $25. Now, I have to ask just how you would be able to call BS on me if you live in upstate NY and besides that why would I lay down some BS anyway?

The only thing I can see "wrong" with my post is I didn't clarify where I was.
So I'll just do that now.
In Oregon AND southwestern Washington it is as I posted.
Well.....

I know how to spell correctly and punctuate properly.

I understand how business works.

I also understand how govt screws things up.

These are essential components in my BS sniffing meter.

I think I'll stand by my initial judgment call.

Thanks for attempting to "enlighten" me though.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:58 AM   #92
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendik View Post
You have no where to start.

Are you in Oregon?
Here:
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/trd/4241540750.html

$16-$20 an hour for a lead drywall guy.

Sorry, but in 1996 when I came to this state lead drywall guys were making $20 - $25. Now, I have to ask just how you would be able to call BS on me if you live in upstate NY and besides that why would I lay down some BS anyway?

The only thing I can see "wrong" with my post is I didn't clarify where I was.
So I'll just do that now.
In Oregon AND southwestern Washington it is as I posted.
You are in an area of the country that lives, breathes, and promotes unions and labor vs. evil capitalists...

I hate to break this news to you, but the days of the unions are coming to an end. And I will add one more voice to the few who have kind of pointed this out to you. I work in construction, meaning I still get up and hit it every day.....and I could probably buy or sell you with the money in my checking account this morning. I have been in unions shops, and from what I have seen, I would rather let the free market run and determine price then have to pay dues to a slob sitting on his fat ass in an office telling us how the union rules America.

You have had nothing but positives to say about the union? Check back in a few years and tell us what happens when things go south, for real.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:30 AM   #93
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tccoggs View Post
People should be empowered and free to work on their own homes. DIY allows many people to take on larger projects that also involve pros that they would probably not take on if every task was done by a pro. I wonder if mechanics sit around and bad mouth guys that wrench on their own vehicles on the weekends???
Kind of off the topic here but there is a BIG difference between the two.

The guy wrenching on his car over the weekend is doing it so that he can get back to work on Monday. He doesn't have the time to leave his car with the mechanic as it is his only mode of transportation. He's not wrenching on his car because he looks down on the mechanic as it being something that anyone can do.

On the other hand, the "weekend warrior" who decides to knock down a few walls and install wall-to-wall wood flooring because he was inspired by something he saw on TV.... SHOULD be empowered to work on his own home but unfortunately guys like that still look down on the guy that has to come bail him out.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:31 AM   #94
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


I have not read all the posts but have read a few and my opinion is while the "educated" look down upon the laborer does not mean this will always be. In fact as Mike Rowe points out we have a an unbalance of educated tech people but fewer and fewer hands on laborers. This will boil down to supply and demand. While i realize we needed Unions at one time the time of the Union is about to pass. Laws are now in place to enforce what Unions started. Unions are nothing but greed anymore and have become just another political group. In the next 20yrs if not sooner you will see a high demand for the skilled laborer and due to demand we can force the hand with the money to pay more. And who's hand will it be paying? Most likely the "educated" who were looking down on the skilled laborer. I am sure some of you out there see it already. How many of us have gotten service calls where the HO who makes millions a yr has no clue what to do when there is a problem but is willing to make the problem go away at all cost?
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:38 AM   #95
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
Kind of off the topic here but there is a BIG difference between the two.

The guy wrenching on his car over the weekend is doing it so that he can get back to work on Monday. He doesn't have the time to leave his car with the mechanic as it is his only mode of transportation. He's not wrenching on his car because he looks down on the mechanic as it being something that anyone can do.

On the other hand, the "weekend warrior" who decides to knock down a few walls and install wall-to-wall wood flooring because he was inspired by something he saw on TV.... SHOULD be empowered to work on his own home but unfortunately guys like that still look down on the guy that has to come bail him out.
I will disagree with this and yes, mechanics do bad mouth those who work on their own cars at home. I was one of them so i know. And why, while i agree people should have the Right to work on their own property people also need to know their limits. Before a person decides to knock down the supports under a load bearing wall it would not hurt to have a professional come in and at least access the work to be done to be sure it can be done safely. Same goes for that shade tree mechanic who thinks they can just start testing wires and splicing because they think they can put their own amp in their car. While one guy has his home falling in the other guy is having his car towed to the dealer because he fried his ECU.
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:00 AM   #96
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Quote:
While one guy has his home falling in the other guy is having his car towed to the dealer because he fried his ECU.
What it really comes down to is necessity vs. option. Or in our examples, the guy who tried to install the amplifier in his car deserves what he gets because he figured that the guys down at that Speed & Sound shop were just a bunch of low-life grease monkeys. Conversely the guy that spends $15 on a 2x2 sheet of 7/16" plywood and another $30 on a pint of cold process roofing cement to do a roof repair during a week of rain and thunderstorms wouldn't fall into this category simply because he was immediately managing the situation and not looking down on the roofer.


How do you "look down" on a roofer anyway?
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:40 AM   #97
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


You can tell the end of the union is getting closer because they have already destroyed several industries. Not to defend the us auto industry because they definetly fell asleep on quality and innovation but there was no way they could be competitive in a market where they were forced to pay union labor wages and Honda and Toyota were not. Not having the labor cost meant more money to put into r+d and the parts of the vehicle.

The auto industry is not alone here either. Many of the bankruptcy's of the airlines like united was mainly to get them an exit strategy from labor agreements like the pilots union. I would better that Verizon continues to sell off more and more of it'd traditional business not only due to a change in technology but because there are next to none when it comes to union employees on the wireless side of the business. In the news its becoming commonplace now to read about school districts that are basically doing a reset, firing all the teachers and rehiring them under new pay schemes to break the existing agreements.

I kinda laugh about this fast food thing that is going on now where they feel that they should be paid 15 an hour. I say go for it and when your you get laid off because your customers don't want to pay 1.5x for the same crummy food and take their business elsewhere you will be stuck looking for another job .

You can't manipulate a free market economy for long. It will self correct, its just a matter of time.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:01 PM   #98
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


Once a the old guard dies from old age the unions will be history. They are the only ones hiring union contractors unless it the state. The new contractors that are moving up will be the ones that will not be hiring union contractors. They will train new workers with new skills for the work that has to be done today. People will either become a drone or start thier own business. The market will decide weather they are good enough to make it.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:56 PM   #99
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


I haven't noticed a lot of negativity towards people in the trades and I've lived in Brooklyn and the middle of nowhere. Sure, there are some people like that but, then again, every career has it's detractors.

Most people think it's really cool that I can build and fix stuff while still being able to button my shirt and read a book. Some people think that tradesmen are overpaid for work that anyone can do, I don't worry about that. I can scramble eggs and put them on the table but I still tip at the restaurant. Some people are prejudiced against rednecks or poor people but I don't really consider that a prejudice against the trades, the two groups just happen to frequently overlap.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:50 PM   #100
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Re: Why Has It Become "OK" To Look Down On A Person Who Works With Their Hands?


My stepson is a Junior in High School. I am watching as he and every kid, regardless of their merits or qualifications are being uniformly told to "go to college" by the school and society alike. To be honest, my step-son is not college material and he knows this. The kid is honest, and hard working and yet frequently is looked down on for not embracing the college path.

Not ever job should require a college degree, and not everyone is college material. To me it feels like College is the new High School.

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