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Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?

 
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:17 AM   #21
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Originally Posted by B.D.R. View Post
Customers often think that I am expensive.
However , they don't bat an eye at the plumber and electrician who I hired and told what to do, and how I want it done.
I have more, heavier tools, and I'm the one who gets the phone call if things go south.
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Originally Posted by VinylHanger View Post
This is what always chaps my hide. I may charge 55-65 bucks an hour and get a sideways look even as I roll in with thousands of dollars worth of tools and trailer and truck.

My plumber and electrician rolls in in his small truck or minivan mainly full of fittings, pulls out one medium sized tool bag and says 90 dollars an hour please.

Like you said, they don't bat an eye and are ecstatic that they showed up and are only charging them that.

Of course it is the same mentality that doesn't think twice about a 200 dollar 15 minute oil change, but squawks when I charge the same 200 dollars for half a days work crawling under the house.
I've been told, "Mystery, breads margin." Meaning the less the HO understands about what you are doing, the more they are willing to pay. IMO thats why HVAC guys make the most.

If an HO calls me up and says they want me to do a job "because they don't have time to do it themselves" or "it won't be that hard" I back my way out of it off the get go because if they can do it, or think they can, they aren't going to want to pay my rates.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:05 AM   #22
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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If an HO calls me up and says they want me to do a job "because they don't have time to do it themselves" or "it won't be that hard" I back my way out of it off the get go because if they can do it, or think they can, they aren't going to want to pay my rates.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:56 AM   #23
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


You carpenters think you're the only one that puts up with homeowners squawking at the price?

Every trade does, and people that complain about the price will bitch about it if it's 5 bucks or 5000 bucks it's just their nature.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:03 AM   #24
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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You carpenters think you're the only one that puts up with homeowners squawking at the price?

Every trade does, and people that complain about the price will bitch about it if it's 5 bucks or 5000 bucks it's just their nature.
How did you draw that conclusion?
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Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:04 AM   #25
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Having never worked in an indoor/cabinet shop setting, what are we really talking for pricing difference?

If a good, low-man, apprentice/assembler makes $16/, is he making $12/ inside? Or a highly skilled lead/foreman at $35-40, what does he make to run the shop for the owner? $20-25?

The reasons for less pay are apparent, but never knew of the pay differences.
Yessir, almost exactly as you said. If a good helper makes $16/hr in the field, he's making $12.50/hr in the shop. If a good apprentice/low man makes $18/hr in the field, he's making $14.00/hr in the shop. If a good mechanic gets $30-35/hr in the field, he's getting $20-25/hr in the shop. Most nobody goes over $25/hr in the shop outside of NYC. A highly skilled foreman $40 yes probably $27 50-$30.00/hr to run the shop.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:16 AM   #26
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
How did you draw that conclusion?
Wow. You really will argue about anything.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:07 PM   #27
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
You carpenters think you're the only one that puts up with homeowners squawking at the price?

Every trade does, and people that complain about the price will bitch about it if it's 5 bucks or 5000 bucks it's just their nature.

Some people are just that way.
Thank god most are not.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:50 PM   #28
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
How did you draw that conclusion?
Years of business experience.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:29 AM   #29
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Originally Posted by VinylHanger View Post
Wow. You really will argue about anything.
How was that arguing? I asked a question. I was curious why he thought carpenters were the only ones that thought that. I didn't see it in the OP, just wondered where he came up with that position.
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You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 06-27-2015, 09:34 AM   #30
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Or a highly skilled lead/foreman at $35-40, what does he make to run the shop for the owner? $20-25?
Where f "highly skilled lead/foreman at $35-40" earn 40$/hour. Google "situm photobucket". I build already ewerithing that exist in carpentry. Would you hire me?
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:08 AM   #31
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Originally Posted by tipitop View Post
Where f "highly skilled lead/foreman at $35-40" earn 40$/hour. Google "situm photobucket". I build already ewerithing that exist in carpentry. Would you hire me?
In New England there are plenty of multi-crew operations where each foreman makes $40+, with benefits, company phone/truck/laptop, etc. I personally couldn't hire you because I don't need another me... But, if I ran a 2nd crew with 5 or 6 guys and my foreman ran the jobs that crew worked on, took care of payroll, handled it's share of office work, and oversaw everything so I could focus on the 1st crew, I ABSOLUTELY would pay equivalent. You don't pay 80k to 100k for a foreman unless he produces 3-5x that back for the company.

What do the top tier guys in Minnesota make?
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:23 PM   #32
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


Another fact needed to point out is that cabinet builders have a lot larger competitive market the home builders. Home builders may bid against 20 different guys on a job tops. Where a cabinet shop has to compete with all the shops in the area and home depot and amazon and Ikea and WalMart and china and and and. Supply and demand.
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Old 02-12-2017, 04:15 PM   #33
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


The way I see it is you're putting less dollars in your pocket in exchange for better health and less danger. Yes woodworking can be dangerous, but it's nothing compared to going up on a roof every day, or working out in -40 conditions for 12 hours.

Having said that, it is still a skilled trade and you should be paid somewhat generously.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:28 PM   #34
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Another fact needed to point out is that cabinet builders have a lot larger competitive market the home builders. Home builders may bid against 20 different guys on a job tops. Where a cabinet shop has to compete with all the shops in the area and home depot and amazon and Ikea and WalMart and china and and and. Supply and demand.
If there are 20 guys bidding on a job, I'm not interested. I had a case where a guy wanted an addition. Just the initial on site consult took 90 mins. The last thing he mentions to me is he has 3 other guys looking at it that same day and 5 more tomorrow. I asked him how many guys he called and he said he and his wife Googled residential contractor and our city/state and called everyone on the first 3 pages!

Who has 60-90 mins to spend discussing your project, 20+ times. Add in follow up calls, emails and proposals and the time spent gets way out of hand. You have to ask when calling that number of contractors, what's their ultimate goal....lowest price wins.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:48 AM   #35
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


Yup,I call that the bidding wars. Who wants to participate in a war ?
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:38 PM   #36
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Yup,I call that the bidding wars. Who wants to participate in a war ?
In the end they almost always get what they pay for. I hope wasting everyone's time including their own was worth it. I'd say the hired contractor won but he was probably doing it by the hour when it was all said and done.
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Old 02-13-2017, 07:18 PM   #37
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


Not sure if it was mentioned but insurance factors in here as well. Also labor is a factor too. It is more work to install than to just build.
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:59 AM   #38
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Yup,I call that the bidding wars. Who wants to participate in a war ?
Idk, 20 years ago when I had my floors refinished I went with the guys who were the middle price by several hundred in each direction from the other two. They were the only ones who actually measured the house rather than just eyeballing it. I certainly didn't expect anyone to match anyone else's price.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:49 AM   #39
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


My point was that at MOST there will be 20. With cabinets there are endless people to compete with.
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:11 PM   #40
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Re: Why Do Woodworkers Make Less?


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Indoor and generally easier work (on the body). When I worked in a cabinet shop there were a lot of older guys doing the technical work who would not want to handle the on-site labor component.
I have to agree that it makes perfect sense that the less risk you take the less money you would make on a job.

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