Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project? - General Discussion - Contractor Talk

Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-14-2014, 08:48 AM   #1
Registered User
 
vin64's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinetry Woodworking
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10

Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Hello my name is Vince and I am a custom cabinet maker/woodworker in Ny State.

I have a potential master bath renovation coming up that is located on the second floor of the home. It will be a total gut out.

Since I normally only do the cabinetry/millwork portions of a project,
my normal cabinetry /millwork contract states that I will take precautions to not cause damages however, I will will not be held liable for any minimal damage to paint, wall covering, or floors during installation.

Question: Who is generally responsible for minor damages to walls and floors of access areas leading to the room during a major renovation such as this?

The client wants a line added to my contract making me responsible before he signs.


If this were just a cabinet job I would not be concerned about the likelihood of damaging anything, however because of the nature of this project and the fact that subs will be used by both me and the homeowner (who is hiring his own tile guy and painter) the likelihood of minor damage is pretty high and might be created by his own subs.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
vin64 is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-14-2014, 08:51 AM   #2
Focusing on solutions.
 
pinwheel's Avatar
 
Trade: hardwood floor contractor & so much more
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,097
Rewards Points: 102

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


How are you not responsible for damage you do to a clients home? My job is to take all necessary precautions not to do damage & if I do,it's on me to make it right.

Advertisement

pinwheel is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to pinwheel For This Useful Post:
bob hutson (03-17-2014), brickhook (03-16-2014), concretemasonry (03-17-2014), donerightwyo (03-19-2014), mikeswoods (03-14-2014), TimelessQuality (03-18-2014)
Old 03-14-2014, 08:56 AM   #3
Pro
 
BCConstruction's Avatar
 
Trade: Construction
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 16,392
Rewards Points: 2,394

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vin64 View Post
Hello my name is Vince and I am a custom cabinet maker/woodworker in Ny State.

I have a potential master bath renovation coming up that is located on the second floor of the home. It will be a total gut out.

Since I normally only do the cabinetry/millwork portions of a project,
my normal cabinetry /millwork contract states that I will take precautions to not cause damages however, I will will not be held liable for any minimal damage to paint, wall covering, or floors during installation.

Question: Who is generally responsible for minor damages to walls and floors of access areas leading to the room during a major renovation such as this?

The client wants a line added to my contract making me responsible before he signs.


If this were just a cabinet job I would not be concerned about the likelihood of damaging anything, however because of the nature of this project and the fact that subs will be used by both me and the homeowner (who is hiring his own tile guy and painter) the likelihood of minor damage is pretty high and might be created by his own subs.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
Thats like saying im not responsible for minor damage to your truck if i run my truck down the side of it by accident.

If you damage property no matter how small the damage is your responsibility.
__________________
www.bcconstructionllc.com

Last edited by BCConstruction; 03-14-2014 at 08:58 AM.
BCConstruction is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-14-2014, 08:58 AM   #4
mindmapping it all!
 
Hand Drive's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 142
Rewards Points: 109

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


you need to walk the job with the homeowner while informing where you will be putting construction walkways down and look for noticeable existing ding bang booms and point them out and show them. a video will show later what was what. you also need to inform them in writing that their subs will be responsible for their mess ups, not you. you are responsible for your subs only in that situation- ideally, but subs usually do not fess up to mess ups and it is left to the contractor most times.
__________________
Set it Right! I don't want to fix it later..

Last edited by Hand Drive; 03-14-2014 at 09:00 AM.
Hand Drive is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:06 AM   #5
Radical Basement Dweller
 
Robie's Avatar
 
Trade: Whatever needs to be made or repaired
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,341
Rewards Points: 8,478

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


I think you need to add a clause to your contract that yes, you will be responsible for any damage you create, but not what others create.

I would take lots of pictures of the entire area where you will be coming and going and working. I have even gone so far as to have the customer accompany me while taking pictures to view any damage that exists already. Doing this I think tends to let the customer know that it's going to be tough blaming you for something you didn't do.
__________________
"The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

.....Margaret Thatcher
Robie is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Robie For This Useful Post:
concretemasonry (03-17-2014), Hand Drive (03-14-2014)
Old 03-14-2014, 09:09 AM   #6
Registered User
 
vin64's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinetry Woodworking
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Pinwheel and BC,

I guess you did not read my entire post? There are other subs that will be hired by the homeowner that I do not want to be responsible for and that's why I needed to ask this question. Maybe the title is misleading.
vin64 is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:11 AM   #7
Registered User
 
vin64's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinetry Woodworking
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Thanks for the advice Hand Drive, Robie.
Normally I take pics before, but walking it with the homeowner at the same time is a good idea.
vin64 is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:24 AM   #8
Pro
 
BCConstruction's Avatar
 
Trade: Construction
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 16,392
Rewards Points: 2,394

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vin64 View Post
Thanks for the advice Hand Drive, Robie.
Normally I take pics before, but walking it with the homeowner at the same time is a good idea.
I read it. Basically your trying to pass any damage onto someone elses back for you not to deal with. if they are your subs and they damage something its upto you and your sub to fix the issue. If the subs are the HO's subs then its not your problem.

Also beware of the subs who are not yours causing damage then saying they didnt cause it.
__________________
www.bcconstructionllc.com
BCConstruction is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:24 AM   #9
Pro
 
Okiecontractor's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southeast Oklahoma
Posts: 1,274
Rewards Points: 2,002

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vin64 View Post
Thanks for the advice Hand Drive, Robie.
Normally I take pics before, but walking it with the homeowner at the same time is a good idea.
Not only walk it but get them to sign off on any damage or flaws that are already there.

With pics of them.
__________________
Yeah I can do that... I learned how from the DIY channel.


DJ
Okiecontractor is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:27 AM   #10
Focusing on solutions.
 
pinwheel's Avatar
 
Trade: hardwood floor contractor & so much more
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,097
Rewards Points: 102

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vin64 View Post
Hello my name is Vince and I am a custom cabinet maker/woodworker in Ny State.

I have a potential master bath renovation coming up that is located on the second floor of the home. It will be a total gut out.

Since I normally only do the cabinetry/millwork portions of a project,
my normal cabinetry /millwork contract states that I will take precautions to not cause damages however, I will will not be held liable for any minimal damage to paint, wall covering, or floors during installation.

Question: Who is generally responsible for minor damages to walls and floors of access areas leading to the room during a major renovation such as this?

The client wants a line added to my contract making me responsible before he signs.


If this were just a cabinet job I would not be concerned about the likelihood of damaging anything, however because of the nature of this project and the fact that subs will be used by both me and the homeowner (who is hiring his own tile guy and painter) the likelihood of minor damage is pretty high and might be created by his own subs.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by vin64 View Post
Pinwheel and BC,

I guess you did not read my entire post? There are other subs that will be hired by the homeowner that I do not want to be responsible for and that's why I needed to ask this question. Maybe the title is misleading.

The bold portion of your OP is what stood out at me & I was responding to. I dont see how you ever get anyone that reads that to sign your contract.
pinwheel is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:31 AM   #11
Pro
 
BCConstruction's Avatar
 
Trade: Construction
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 16,392
Rewards Points: 2,394

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pinwheel View Post
The bold portion of your OP is what stood out at me & I was responding to. I dont see how you ever get anyone that reads that to sign your contract.
Also what is the classification of minimal. To me minimal is smaller than a fist size but to some of my HO minimal is getting a magnifying glass out to inspect for damage. Yet i could fall through a wall and some HO's would say thats ok dont worry about it.
__________________
www.bcconstructionllc.com
BCConstruction is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:32 AM   #12
Don
 
rotarex's Avatar
 
Trade: Renovator/ Builder
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,322
Rewards Points: 508

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


In My opinion Record on video where you will be walking, what damages are there currently, and everyday you walk in look for a new damage, record again with time so there is proof.

if the HO is playing GC and hiring there own subs and no one will own up to the minor damages then the HO is responsible for the damage.

the Point of a GC is to manage and oversee a project if the GC is MIA then its the GC fault for not seeing what happen and thats where insurance comes into play
__________________
Custom Decks
Custom aquarium all salt water
Renovation
next on my list............planting trees for all those material i used
rotarex is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to rotarex For This Useful Post:
Live_oak (03-14-2014)
Old 03-14-2014, 09:36 AM   #13
Registered User
 
vin64's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinetry Woodworking
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


The contract that I normally use which is posted above is intended for larger job sites where there is a GC or architect/designer involved who I am working for and I am just one of about 10 other subs on the job.

In this scenario I want to change the contract to protect the homeowner from damages by me and my subs but not be responsible for his/her subs.

I definitely did not word this post correctly.
My fault.
vin64 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to vin64 For This Useful Post:
pinwheel (03-14-2014)
Old 03-14-2014, 09:46 AM   #14
mindmapping it all!
 
Hand Drive's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 142
Rewards Points: 109

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vin64 View Post
The contract that I normally use which is posted above is intended for larger job sites where there is a GC or architect/designer involved who I am working for and I am just one of about 10 other subs on the job.

In this scenario I want to change the contract to protect the homeowner from damages by me and my subs but not be responsible for his/her subs.

I definitely did not word this post correctly.
My fault.
congratulations! you are at the other end of the spectrum and will be held liable for every action. a sub can go through ducking and weaving while avoiding some responsibility but you will be the one responsible when the deal is done.
__________________
Set it Right! I don't want to fix it later..
Hand Drive is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:52 AM   #15
K&B Plus...
 
Live_oak's Avatar
 
Trade: Kitchen Designer
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Memphis,. TN
Posts: 242
Rewards Points: 154

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


The GC on the job is responsible for the overall site conditions. In the absence of a true GC, with the homeowner acting as one and not knowing what that means, it means that no one will own the problems. Which means that everyone will own the headaches. Unless you have a video camera there 24/7 during the project, you're not going to know who bumped that corner and knocked off the drywall mud. The homeowner needs to understand that before they embark down this road. "Saving money" by not hiring a GC may end up costing them money.
Live_oak is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Live_oak For This Useful Post:
blacktop (03-19-2014)
Old 03-14-2014, 09:52 AM   #16
Registered User
 
vin64's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinetry Woodworking
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


@ Hand Drive Actually no. As Rotarex said the HO is acting as the GC here and not me. That's the reason I needed to start this post in the first place. If I were doing the entire job I would assume full responsibility in the contract and not be concerned about it.
vin64 is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:53 AM   #17
Pro
 
CarpenterSFO's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 7,076
Rewards Points: 2,044

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Blue tape and pictures are your friends.
__________________
- Bob

Last edited by CarpenterSFO; 03-14-2014 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Kind of long-winded before.
CarpenterSFO is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to CarpenterSFO For This Useful Post:
smalpierre (03-17-2014)
Old 03-14-2014, 11:12 AM   #18
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,735
Rewards Points: 2,570

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


This can impact scheduling - you don't want your subs and the HO's subs on site ate the same time. You'll have to walk through before and after the HOs subs do work.

My biggest problem over the years has been along the lines of "Who backed their truck into the ***X and bent / busted it?".
hdavis is online now  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:46 PM   #19
Have Trowel, Do travel
 
brunothedog's Avatar
 
Trade: Artisan
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: international
Posts: 909
Rewards Points: 1,188

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


good luck, your gonna need it
__________________
I used to love the days when you could look at an unattended bag on a train or bus and think to yourself...'Iím going to take that.'
brunothedog is offline  
Old 03-14-2014, 02:32 PM   #20
Dirt Warrior
 
barthard's Avatar
 
Trade: Hardscapes
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 59
Rewards Points: 77

Re: Who Is Typically Responsible For Minor Damage During Remodel Project?


Maybe request that the 'GC' lets you and your guys work alone on the project during your install depending how long it will take. Walk through before and after should keep them from pinning other subs dings and scratches on you.

Advertisement

barthard is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to barthard For This Useful Post:
mikeswoods (03-16-2014)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Non union jobsite (quaker church)vandalized in philadelphia $500,000 Damage mastersplinter Carpentry 41 04-19-2013 01:06 AM
wood supplier looking for a an overseas resort partner project developer harrymontana Help Wanted or Looking For Work 1 02-16-2013 09:04 PM
Help on Ideas for remodel needed please unhique Architecture & Design 17 06-24-2012 05:06 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?