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What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?

 
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:27 AM   #21
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Have them focus on developing the bots and it will become a moot issue.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:00 AM   #22
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
Right on the heels pf the first article was this one.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ws/1459488002/

"The Home Builders Association of Michigan issued a "wake-up call" last year about a near-crisis in a shortage of affordable homes. But instead of ramping up, construction has slowed.

Blame it on rising costs, regulations and shortages of land and labor that have made it more expensive to build homes. Meanwhile, high demand is driving up prices in Southeast Michigan, especially for the starter houses and midsize homes that many builders cannot afford to put up."
We have a lack of affordable small, midsize homes but NO shortage of labor. I would call it house poor. An enormous amount of homes are in need of updating but they need so much that affordability to tackle it is a problem. So I say the amount of people playing contractor is not as much as an issue as people are house poor. That drives down lower contractor rates to compete for survival.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:08 AM   #23
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


I mentioned in a thread feeling blue that blue states high in taxes, regulation and general cost of living.
Skilled trades cant earn what the big corporations or unions generate and for often less responsibility. That doesnt drive a young person to venture into a tough line of work.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:18 AM   #24
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


None of the children of my subs follow in their footsteps like we did of our elder family coming up.


Around here you see State union workers polishing their RV's in the driveway with 5 weeks a year paid vacation, benefits, raises and retirement income by 50 and swinging a hammer feels like a bad career move.



What does my state do? Gave them all more raise and retroactive money from previous freezes, elevated all of my insurances to absorb the brunt of losses in the industry likely led by the vast amount of illegal workers. And encouraged undocumented foreigners to come for sanctuary where they hide in freelance cash professions.
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:35 AM   #25
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Or do like I did, dig ****ing footings and sweep out 5 story buildings until I earned my trade experience. Hey that's a novel thought!


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It will happen more and more I hope as wages keep going higher and higher. Right now from what I've seen, the wages don't matter, they just don't want to do the work. Not all but many. OJT is the best education.

Agreed on the government, would be nice if any civillian branch of it did it's job. I don't know why I'd expect the schools to be any different

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Old 10-06-2018, 10:23 AM   #26
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Or do like I did, dig ****ing footings and sweep out 5 story buildings until I earned my trade experience. Hey that's a novel thought!


Mike.
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I agree, but, how many unskilled jobs are out there? Some certainly.
Brooms are now mounted on a skid steer, ditches are dug with back hoes and a shovel or a spade is a rare item. I now see holes being dug with vac trucks. All of this is now skilled labor.

Our community built new schools, no industrial arts at all now offered. They decided not to build a wood shop, metal shop etc. I think this plan this was intentionally withheld prior to be approved by voters. Our schools got it wrong. The local vocational school is treated as a stigma for kids with behavior issues, the local schools don't seem interested in changing that, again they have got it wrong.

On another note, a community close to us has a massive unused airport, it was offered free to Amazon to draw them to the area. Amazon said no thanks, there is no work force locally. We still have unemplyment but no one can pass a drug test, every local employer is complaining about it.

I don't have the answers.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:28 AM   #27
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


who cares
working with your hands and doing physical labor is stupid
young men should keep those polished nails and pointy fingers that text so well
chicks don't dig rough hands, cracked skin, dirt under your finger nails, they want a man who uses bath oils and body lotions
they don't want a man who comes home exhausted and worn out from actually working all day

todays society values easy work and lots of money
wages are crap and will never rise up to the amount needed to make the trades attractive as long as low ballers keep lowballing. I started asking the cheap o's if they like not making any money or if they are running a business or killing time

like I said who cares
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:03 AM   #28
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
Id say if the schools are building Media centers and big ass football stadiums they can help prepare some folks for the work force.... I do pay taxes so I feel i have some say.

That being said I don't trust the public system here and don't use it.

I have donated money to trades programs. 3. 1 is doing some good

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I am totally for trades and shop programs in school. I would love to see the public system move toward a trade school system and allow for more school choice. My sister teaches at Dubiski Career High School in Grand Prairie. https://www.gpisd.org/dubiski

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You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:08 AM   #29
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Or do like I did, dig ****ing footings and sweep out 5 story buildings until I earned my trade experience. Hey that's a novel thought!


Mike.
_______________
I think the difference is exposure. You and I were probably exposed to the trades at a young age and became fascinated and curious by it. I can remember watching and helping my Grandpa build his retirement home. We would always build something when we stayed with them in the summer and I can remember the stories he would tell about his brothers and father being cabinet makers. I loved watching This Old House and other shows that showed you how things were built and why they were constructed that way.

Most kids don't get that experience. I think that is where the public schools should step in. They give them other experiences and shove college down their throats with ACT and SAT tests, college visit days and by communicating if they don't have a degree they will be stuck plunging toilets for a living. If only they followed up by showing what a plumber can make, I think it would change people's minds.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:10 AM   #30
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Why is it the government's problem to fix?

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Amen.

I'll probably step on some toes with this, but, if you don't want your children to be stooges of the empire, and learn to be whatever is popular at the moment, which right now is a metro-sexual dandy with a man bun, don't send them to public indoctrination programs.

Raise your kids yourself, and teach them what you want them to know, and don't depend on the "government" to teach them. Or they'll learn what the "government" wants them to know.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:12 PM   #31
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Close the Borders to Illegal Alien workers:

Change the law regarding citizenship of children of of illegally present persons: No automatic US citizen for birth on US territory by criminal Parents.

Stop counting for Congressional district apportionment Illegal Aliens: Amend the 14th Amendment to only count legal citizens for Congressional district apportionment.

About 30 Congresspeople represent the ~20 million illegal aliens enumerated in the last (2010) Census.

Let the then free of peon labor, labor Market work through ever higher wages to return to 'normal' relative wages between blue and white collar employees.

Arrest, for trial all person and organizations that aid and abet any criminal illegal alien:

End automatically the Not for Profit status of Any group or individual that claims the authority to form a "sanctuary" Zone or Area in violation of the US Constitution's specific prohibition of any dual sovereignty by lower levels of Government.

What I find silly is that many GCs and owners of Subs think they can't make $ with out breaking the laws of the land.

If you can't get good help, PAY MORE.

The Tower of Babel didn't turn out well long term in the Old Testament, why would it now for the USA as a Nation or as a Culture????
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:28 PM   #32
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
Close the Borders to Illegal Alien workers:

Change the law regarding citizenship of children of of illegally present persons: No automatic US citizen for birth on US territory by criminal Parents.

Stop counting for Congressional district apportionment Illegal Aliens: Amend the 14th Amendment to only count legal citizens for Congressional district apportionment.

About 30 Congresspeople represent the ~20 million illegal aliens enumerated in the last (2010) Census.

Let the then free of peon labor, labor Market work through ever higher wages to return to 'normal' relative wages between blue and white collar employees.

Arrest, for trial all person and organizations that aid and abet any criminal illegal alien:

End automatically the Not for Profit status of Any group or individual that claims the authority to form a "sanctuary" Zone or Area in violation of the US Constitution's specific prohibition of any dual sovereignty by lower levels of Government.

What I find silly is that many GCs and owners of Subs think they can't make $ with out breaking the laws of the land.

If you can't get good help, PAY MORE.

The Tower of Babel didn't turn out well long term in the Old Testament, why would it now for the USA as a Nation or as a Culture????
Problem is there is an ugly line between laws that protect us from interior and exterior threats and those that regulate our industry. I bring this up all of the time. Some states require licenses others require registration and others nothing. Weird how chit gets built in all of those states without much difference. There is no GC license in Illinois yet everything in Chicago is still standing. Romex is another things i bring up. It's legal in unincorporated areas, BX is good in some and conduit is mandatory in others. All residential homes with similar floor plans and construction methods.

I guess my point is yes, I agree that we should abide by the laws of the land, but seriously, how many of us speed, roll through a stop sign or do other things that are illegal but we deem okay to skirt? The problem isn't hiring the illegals its not doing much to keep them out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:30 PM   #33
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio painter View Post
I agree, but, how many unskilled jobs are out there? Some certainly.
Brooms are now mounted on a skid steer, ditches are dug with back hoes and a shovel or a spade is a rare item. I now see holes being dug with vac trucks. All of this is now skilled labor.

Our community built new schools, no industrial arts at all now offered. They decided not to build a wood shop, metal shop etc. I think this plan this was intentionally withheld prior to be approved by voters. Our schools got it wrong. The local vocational school is treated as a stigma for kids with behavior issues, the local schools don't seem interested in changing that, again they have got it wrong.

On another note, a community close to us has a massive unused airport, it was offered free to Amazon to draw them to the area. Amazon said no thanks, there is no work force locally. We still have unemplyment but no one can pass a drug test, every local employer is complaining about it.

I don't have the answers.


All that stuff was available then as well. I've never seen a skid steer sweep out a small 10x10 doctors office room on the 5th floor. The backhoe dug footings as well. When the layout guy laid them out wrong it was me who corrected it. This isn't a new concept. It's called hard work. It's where you start in life.


Mike.
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Last edited by Calidecks; 10-06-2018 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:50 PM   #34
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


I just laid out footings and locations for deck I subbed out Excavating and concrete.
I could not have touched this for the price I paid and they had a team of people multiple days come back and forth.

I know what it cost me for a couple of guys and overhead in payroll and it's so hard to imagine that these teams of large crews banging stuff out are making any money with legitimate overhead. They obviously handle more volume but somehow the numbers don't work in my brain.
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Old 10-06-2018, 03:01 PM   #35
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
All that stuff was available then as well. I've never seen a skid steer sweep out a small 10x10 doctors office room on the 5th floor. The backhoe dug footings as well. When the layout guy laid them out wrong it was me who corrected it. This isn't a new concept. It's called hard work. It's where you start in life.


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I fully agree where we started out, but I believe that casual labor on a job site is not as readily available as it was 30 years ago.
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:07 PM   #36
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
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I fully agree where we started out, but I believe that casual labor on a job site is not as readily available as it was 30 years ago.


I was making 22 an hour in 1985 as a professional commercial laborer.


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Old 10-06-2018, 04:21 PM   #37
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
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I fully agree where we started out, but I believe that casual labor on a job site is not as readily available as it was 30 years ago.
a good laborer can be worth a lot of money.

doesn't have to be skilled in the trades but needs to be sharp enough to know what is going on & what needs to be done presently & a few steps ahead.

very difficult to find now days especially considering the high dollars paid to tradesmen.

younger guys just don't want to work or learn.

the last big job i did i hired a 60ish year old guy to come in after hours and clean up. it was just easier.

dude was incredible.ended up putting him on regular until we got done.

ran circles around several younger guys.

tin bangers said if i couldn't use him they would....
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:59 PM   #38
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
I am totally for trades and shop programs in school. I would love to see the public system move toward a trade school system and allow for more school choice. My sister teaches at Dubiski Career High School in Grand Prairie. https://www.gpisd.org/dubiski

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX_840pIyV4
Wow, that looks like it's quite a high school, really good idea to get started in a practical career.
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:09 PM   #39
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


Quote:
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a good laborer can be worth a lot of money.



doesn't have to be skilled in the trades but needs to be sharp enough to know what is going on & what needs to be done presently & a few steps ahead.



very difficult to find now days especially considering the high dollars paid to tradesmen.



younger guys just don't want to work or learn.



the last big job i did i hired a 60ish year old guy to come in after hours and clean up. it was just easier.



dude was incredible.ended up putting him on regular until we got done.



ran circles around several younger guys.



tin bangers said if i couldn't use him they would....


Hell yeah. As a commercial laborer, I had the keys to all the job trailers, in charge of all the equipment such as skiploaders, lifts and Bobcats. Etc.

I had to be the first on the job and have everything ready to go for the Carpenters. I also took care of the blades and powertools. No one left until I did a tool count daily. I did everything I could to make my boss as miserable as he could be when I wasn't there. Kept me always there. Lol.


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Old 10-06-2018, 05:11 PM   #40
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Re: What Is YOUR State Doing About The Skilled Trades Problem?


It actually made him never want to loan me out to another superintendent. When he did he sternly said "two days, I mean it only two days!"


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