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Total Disaster

 
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:14 PM   #1
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Total Disaster


Need some advice from some of you guys. I have done construction for over 10 years now and never seen anything like this. I was building my new home. I started off using ICF forms in my basement until I was above grade. I then switched to a 2x8 wall for the 3 feet above grade. I used floor trusses that were hung from a laminated beam. The hangers where a new style where there are only 5 nails in each hanger holding the trusses to the beam. Everything was fine and dandy. I finished off my sub floor with 3/4 advantech and we tarped it off for the winter. The problem occurred two days ago. My whole sub floor collapsed into my basement. Basically the beam pretty much fell straight down and I have two lean-toos in my basement resting on my three foot walls. I had the owner of the truss company come out (I bought the truss,beam,and hangers from same spot) and he took pictures of it and said he isn't sure what happened and never seen it before. It was only a basement so I didn't have insurance on it yet. The snow was not a factor he stated because the floor system should hold 4 times the weight that was on it. My question is this, what should I do? If they say that they aren't going to cover it should I take legal action? also has anyone had this type of thing happen before? I am estimating about 15k in damage and thats not counting the clean up. I am t
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:23 PM   #2
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Re: Total Disaster


Is it possible that the short wall kicked inward and created stress on the joist/hanger connection? Was the 2x8 wall called out by an engineer or an architect?
Seems like the ICF should have continued up to the joists.

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Old 12-30-2013, 09:29 PM   #3
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Re: Total Disaster


Any pics?
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:28 PM   #4
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Re: Total Disaster


here are some pictures of the basement.
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total disaster-basement-1.jpg   total disaster-basement-2.jpg   total disaster-basement-3.jpg  
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:30 PM   #5
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Re: Total Disaster


Here are some more pictures.
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total disaster-basement-4.jpg   total disaster-basemen-5.jpg   total disaster-basement-6.jpg  
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:32 PM   #6
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Re: Total Disaster


I'm not usually into this, but I'd call a lawyer
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:34 PM   #7
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Re: Total Disaster


I had the owner and the engineer of the truss company out there yesterday. He said the 2x8 wall wasn't a problem and said I installed everything very well. there was snow on the subfloor. He estimated the weight was 20 lbs per sq foot. The floor was rated at almost 80 lbs a sq foot for sustained weight. The basement floor jacks were spaced at 16 feet (20 feet was max in designed layout by engineer).Right now we are thinking the hangers failed. They have a new design now. The hangers are hung with just two nails on top of beam and two nails on the face of the hanger. There is also one single nail into the bottom of the truss. These floor trusses were 14" tall and the beam I used was a double laminated beam that was 14" tall and around 4 inches wide. When we looked at the beam the whole top of it was shredded from the sheer proof nails being pulled out. We are all puzzled.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:36 PM   #8
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Re: Total Disaster


Thank God nobody got hurt.

That being said I don't know if legal action would accomplish much. They are just going to claim installer error. Tough luck trying to prove them wrong. You said you didn't have homeowners on it. Does your company have liability, that should cover it.
It looks like if you disassemble it carefully you may be able to salvage most of the materials.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:38 PM   #9
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Re: Total Disaster


Are the hangers from Simpson? They are a pretty standup company. They usually stand behind their product.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:40 PM   #10
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Re: Total Disaster


I always wondered what a scissor truss was
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:43 PM   #11
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Re: Total Disaster


I am not one to talk about a company online so I prefer not to say where I got them but the floor trusses were from that company and the hangers and beam were also sold from that same company but they ordered them from some where else. So in reality, everything i ordered came through this one company. The owner said he felt horrible and he said it was not installers error. he actually said I installed it better then most he has seen in references to the posts, and beam supports, and nailing patterns on beam. etc.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:49 PM   #12
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Re: Total Disaster


That is a good news. The only time I have seen a failure like that was after Hurricane Sandy.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:52 PM   #13
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Re: Total Disaster


My first instinct for anything like this is installer error, but if the company is saying you didn't do anything wrong, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get them (their insurance) to cover this.

It could also be a design error, I've caught a couple in my short number of days.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:56 PM   #14
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Re: Total Disaster


Thank goodness the rest of the house wasn't constructed on it already...

Sorry for your problem.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:57 PM   #15
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Re: Total Disaster


After looking again, what holds the ICF walls from being pushed in by the soil? Did they move?

My next question goes back to the top flange hangers. I've used them and they were maxed out load wise on a 22' span, 24" spacing.

What type of beam, LVL, LSL, glylam, PSL? Does the nail schedule allow top nails like that?
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:01 AM   #16
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Re: Total Disaster


If the beam fell, I suppose I'd focus on the beam, and the support at its ends. Why did it fall? Were there any internal shear walls. What was to keep the beam from coming off the walls at either end? Some shear wall under the beam?
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:03 AM   #17
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Re: Total Disaster


I can't imagine if you had kept framing and hadn't tarped it for the winter. You have to wonder if it would have done that at a later date and been catastrophic.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:46 AM   #18
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Re: Total Disaster


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden view View Post
After looking again, what holds the ICF walls from being pushed in by the soil? Did they move?

My next question goes back to the top flange hangers. I've used them and they were maxed out load wise on a 22' span, 24" spacing.

What type of beam, LVL, LSL, glylam, PSL? Does the nail schedule allow top nails like that?
It was a lvl beam.it was a 20 foot span from wall to center beam. They were on 19.2 centers
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:50 AM   #19
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Re: Total Disaster


Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
If the beam fell, I suppose I'd focus on the beam, and the support at its ends. Why did it fall? Were there any internal shear walls. What was to keep the beam from coming off the walls at either end? Some shear wall under the beam?
The beam was screwed to the wall and was ran to the outside of the exterior wall which was a 2x8 wall. I didnt have a shear wall inside. The exterior wallnhad 6 2x8 screwed together for support.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:53 AM   #20
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Re: Total Disaster


Where in ny are you?

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