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Steel Beam Spans

 
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:10 PM   #1
 
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Steel Beam Spans


hello, my name is rj and I am a carpenter in va. This is my first time on the site and I need HELP. I am building a 28' x 36' wood frame cape cod style garage for a customer. I want to put a 36' steel I beam down the center and use 2 x 10 x 14' floor joists. I am using 2 x 8 rafters with a 12/12 pitch and will have knee walls 5' in from each side. The room will probably be finished someday, so I need 40 lb. live load upstairs. Can someone PLEASE tell me what size steel I beam I need? I forgot that there will be a load bearing wall at 20 feet. Thanks for any help!
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:12 PM   #2
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


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Originally Posted by wood framer View Post
hello, my name is rj and I am a carpenter in va. This is my first time on the site and I need HELP. I am building a 28' x 36' wood frame cape cod style garage for a customer. I want to put a 36' steel I beam down the center and use 2 x 10 x 14' floor joists. I am using 2 x 8 rafters with a 12/12 pitch and will have knee walls 5' in from each side. The room will probably be finished someday, so I need 40 lb. live load upstairs. Can someone PLEASE tell me what size steel I beam I need? I forgot that there will be a load bearing wall at 20 feet. Thanks for any help!
The people you buy the steel beam from will be able to tell you that.

Where are you located?

If in Florida a Registered Engineer or and srchitect will have to seal your plans.

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Old 03-06-2009, 10:16 PM   #3
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


You need to check with an engineer for what you are asking. Your supplier of the steel beam should have a few on staff to help you out if you will provide the details.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:24 PM   #4
 
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


I am on the Eastern Shore of VA. We only have one steel supplier within 75 miles. They used to be able to calculate my beams, sell them, deliver, and seal them, until recently. To save money they laid off thier only certified engineer and no one else has a clue what they are doing. I built a similar garage last year with a 28' clear span and the good engineer sent me a 6" x 16" beam that worked great. Now this new guy is telling me I need a 24" deep beam for a 20' span. ???
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:39 PM   #5
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


You need a new enginerd.
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:40 PM   #6
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


Quote:
Originally Posted by wood framer View Post
hello, my name is rj and I am a carpenter in va. This is my first time on the site and I need HELP. I am building a 28' x 36' wood frame cape cod style garage for a customer. I want to put a 36' steel I beam down the center and use 2 x 10 x 14' floor joists. I am using 2 x 8 rafters with a 12/12 pitch and will have knee walls 5' in from each side. The room will probably be finished someday, so I need 40 lb. live load upstairs. Can someone PLEASE tell me what size steel I beam I need? I forgot that there will be a load bearing wall at 20 feet. Thanks for any help!
You need a steel beam that can carry 840 LB per foot and that is calculating 40LL/20DL load. Call the steel company and ask them what size of steel will carry that load. I would break the span and have a smaller beam. Plan to spring for a crane or a track hoe to set that in place.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:38 AM   #7
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


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Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
You need a steel beam that can carry 840 LB per foot and that is calculating 40LL/20DL load. Call the steel company and ask them what size of steel will carry that load. I would break the span and have a smaller beam. Plan to spring for a crane or a track hoe to set that in place.
Are you an engineer? Have you looked at the plans? If no, then you should not tell people what they need for something that obviously needs engineering.

Get an engineer.

Try understanding what is involved with your question here
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:12 AM   #8
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


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You need a new enginerd.
Hey, I resemble that remark.

Call these guys and see if they can steer you in the right direction:

www.atlasmastercorp.com
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:09 AM   #9
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


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Are you an engineer? Have you looked at the plans? If no, then you should not tell people what they need for something that obviously needs engineering.

Get an engineer.

Try understanding what is involved with your question here
When I signed up here, I thought it was a Professional Contractor talk

Contractor (who is a professional) I assume, who is asking a question what size of beam to expect on the job he is in the planning process to estimate or whatever. I gave him advise about what load that beam will carry so he can get information from the steel company what size of beam to expect.

It is a simple load calculation and he should discuss this matter with an architect who will finalize the design and it will go for a building department approvals. If he doesn't, he is an IDIOT with a capital I. The reason I threw that up there, so he knows what the weight load the beam will carry, according to what he stated and I told him what the weight margins I used to come up with that calculation.

As engeeners and architets go... a few times I had to make them change the beam sizes, because of theirs miscalculations and good thing I doubled checked the load factor in the field (as any builder should). You are a framer and I'm sure you do the the same when you frame a house, double checking the specified beam if it can carry the load for the specified span before you put it up. If you don't my friend, you should start doing it, because by NJ law you should and if a structure failed, it is your responsobily as a professional to catch that mistake in the field.

In addition, no Steel factory will make a beam with out an architectural drawing, it is also a Law and I am sure not only in NJ

Out of curiosity I checked that calculation against a paralam, they don't make anything close to the size of beam will be needed to carry that load for that span.
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:59 AM   #10
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


I forgot to add the total area he is showing is 1008 sqft, meaning the only time a beam that I calculated which support 840LB per foot, will fail only, if a HO will place over the 30,240 LB of weight in a 504 sgft area which the beam is designed to support. So logically speaking if a HO makes a bedroom in the future above the garage and decides to park a tandem in it, the beam will deflect a little more then it should.
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Old 03-07-2009, 12:30 PM   #11
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
When I signed up here, I thought it was a Professional Contractor talk
The professionals give sound, logical advice that adheres to the quote right below the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
Contractor (who is a professional) I assume, who is asking a question what size of beam to expect on the job he is in the planning process to estimate or whatever. I gave him advise about what load that beam will carry so he can get information from the steel company what size of beam to expect.

It is a simple load calculation and he should discuss this matter with an architect who will finalize the design and it will go for a building department approvals. If he doesn't, he is an IDIOT with a capital I. The reason I threw that up there, so he knows what the weight load the beam will carry, according to what he stated and I told him what the weight margins I used to come up with that calculation.
So, you're going to put your stamp on this because you know without a doubt what he needs? Tell me...where does he say what the snow loads are for his jurisdiction? Do you know the difference between the live loads of attics vs. floor systems? Because that's exactly what it sounds like it is...an attic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
As engeeners and architets go... a few times I had to make them change the beam sizes, because of theirs miscalculations and good thing I doubled checked the load factor in the field (as any builder should).
Good for you.

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Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
You are a framer and I'm sure you do the the same when you frame a house, double checking the specified beam if it can carry the load for the specified span before you put it up. If you don't my friend, you should start doing it, because by NJ law you should and if a structure failed, it is your responsobily as a professional to catch that mistake in the field.
I build per plan. I am not an engineer. I will question it if it's obvious, but in no way am I responsible. As the framer, I frame to the specs on the prints. Period. I am not liable for any structural failures due to someone elses miscalculations. That my friend would fall on the builders shoulders. My insurance company says nothing about me checking the structural engineers calculations for liability purposes. My lawyer says I'm fine.

If it's painfully obvious that it's undersized, then I will question it. If it is ridiculously oversized, it's none of my business.

If I questioned everything on the prints, I'd never finish.

Quote:
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In addition, no Steel factory will make a beam with out an architectural drawing, it is also a Law and I am sure not only in NJ
Depends where you live. If that's what happens in jersey, fine. That is not the majority. I'm sure places like Florida, California, Oregon, Wa. State do, but I can go into any steel yard, tell them to deliver a steel beam and I can put it in. I'm liable for it, yes. But there ain't no law.

My advice, as anyones should be on structural advice, is to tell them to see an engineer or an architect who will take a look at the plans, make the calculations, and stamp it. If you are not willing to put your stamp on it, then you should not be giving specific design criteria for something you do not have 100% working knowledge on.

Read post #6 & #7 and have some comprehension to what I am saying.
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Old 03-07-2009, 02:09 PM   #12
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


So, you're going to put your stamp on this because you know without a doubt what he needs? Tell me...where does he say what the snow loads are for his jurisdiction? Do you know the difference between the live loads of attics vs. floor systems? Because that's exactly what it sounds like it is...an attic.

I thought he was asking about the beam needed to carry a floor above the garage not a beam to carry a roof load resting on the exterior wall. That is what I calculated and I stated that was based on 40LL and 20DL floor load. if there is a 30LB snow load and roof is resting on the same beam, would be a little different, but he did not say that.

In addition I am not putting a stamp on anything, I just told him what load will be that will rest on the beam according to his question and information provided. What he got there that is his problem not mine, as I said before he is a professional and he will build according to a design which is done by an Architect and he will obtain a building permit.

If he don't, he will do it anyway, following my advise or following some bullsh*it he will find on the net, at least if he will follow what I said, HO has a chance not to wake up bellow.




I build per plan. I am not an engineer. I will question it if it's obvious, but in no way am I responsible. As the framer, I frame to the specs on the prints. Period. I am not liable for any structural failures due to someone elses miscalculations. That my friend would fall on the builders shoulders. My insurance company says nothing about me checking the structural engineers calculations for liability purposes. My lawyer says I'm fine.

I like you and I admire your skills and knowledge and I always read your posts, so I do hope you never end up in a situation that something went wrong, because not often enough you come across a contractor who takes pride in his work like your self, and I hope you understand this is just a discussion between us and I hope you will not take it the wrong way.

Depends where you live. If that's what happens in jersey, fine. That is not the majority. I'm sure places like Florida, California, Oregon, Wa. State do, but I can go into any steel yard, tell them to deliver a steel beam and I can put it in. I'm liable for it, yes. But there ain't no law.

I don't know how things work there and I don't care, as I said before, I wouldn't expect anyone to go ahead and build a 28 by 36 foot building with out a drawing or permit, you have to be crazy or stupid.

My advice, as anyones should be on structural advice, is to tell them to see an engineer or an architect who will take a look at the plans, make the calculations, and stamp it. If you are not willing to put your stamp on it, then you should not be giving specific design criteria for something you do not have 100% working knowledge on.

If I could I would put a stamp on that, because I like to think I have an 85% knowledge and experience , and I learned long time ago to stay away from people who got 100% knowledge, because 10 minutes in to a conversation they stop making sense. But I am here only to advise on something I know and have experience with, and if I don't or not sure, I keep my mouth shut and learn from others. Same as I wouldn't expect anyone in the business to go ahead and build a structure, especially one that involves structural loads without use of an Architect, Engineer, or without obtaining building permits, that considered lack of common sense.
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Old 03-07-2009, 09:36 PM   #13
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Re: Steel Beam Spans


www.litesteelbeam.com/remodeler

Different applications and load tables on the site.
Ultimitely it does boil down to having a seal on the plans to get the permit.
This company has popped up in all the trades over the past few months...anybody seen or used them?

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