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Starting A Siding Crew

 
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:20 PM   #21
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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Originally Posted by nlgutters View Post
I run 2 full time gutter crews. There is plenty of money in siding.
we did 40+ siding installs last year. And already have 12 done and 6 on the books.
133 roofs and 2400 replacment windows/doors

The least profitable is gutters
OK Josh. Good luck with the siding buddy.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:28 PM   #22
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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The least profitable is gutters
Yep .[/QUOTE]

Roofing is first, then gutters & covers, then windows, then siding. That's my experience.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:32 PM   #23
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


man you guys are tough

long bed truck- having a 16' or larger trailer is nicer, having an enclosed is better yet as it keeps all the boxes inteact from the elements so your not dealing with soggy boxes/wet material. I got all that covered, but typically we will set up homemade long saw horses to keep the material off the ground and killing the grass, and then just use a tarp to cover it all up to free up trucks/trailers for other purposes.

for years we used a homemade cut table. frame work was rabbited 2x4's that I inset a 24" wide chunk of plywood into 12' long and then I made a saw slide frame out of small angle iron and screwed it to the table. nice big flat work surface for marking/working on full length pieces. I later "upgraded" to a tapco siding cut table...it has it's advantages, esspecially when running gables we can set the angle once we figure it out and go, but in reality i would say save that money and just build a big cut table, they're more user freindly and saves ya $7-800.

have a typical 10'6" brake with a 14" throat. Once in awhile I wished Ida bought a brake with a 19" throat, but we made due. You can accessorize all ya want with cut off wheels, coil carts, etc...budget is your limit but I like the looks of oour bent brickmold over the tool we bought from tapco, that i sold the next month, that you could roll the brickmold style into it or bead roll fascia to keep it from warping. That's your call.

whole assortment of tin snips, right/left/straight cut aviation snips to get nice clean cuts in aluminum and vinyl. Big straight cut shears, like tapco brand sells works great for straight cuts.

trim nail holder/punch

dimpler pliers (cant think of real name), but you use them to louver the siding along the top hem to finish the wall and those lovers lock into the UT or DUT under the eaves, under windows, over doors, etc...

levels of all sizes, and you will find yourself cutting down torpedo levels to work in short area's. chaulk boxes with either baby powder or the retail store purple powder so you can chaulk long lines and leave no stain.

electric shears- i like these for the long straight cuts like above OHD's and such, faster and more accurate than scoring with a utility knife and works perfect in subzero temps with zero cracking issues.

smooth faced hammer, I personally like 16oz, the 24oz gets heavy pounding all day since you drive alot more siding nails in a day then you ever will framing nails.

We used to measure around the house to set starter strip, once i invested in a laser transit I never looked back. perfect line around the house everytime with alot faster set up then the measure/mark/chaulk line technique we used for yrs prior.

LOTS of various sized step ladders, extension ladders, ladder jacks, planks. I started with 2 32' ext ladders, a set of ladder jacks, a 20', 16' plank then a 12' expandable plank...then added more as time went on to speed up the process/aid in effeicencey. never used stand off's, but the most we ever did was typical 2 stories and the ladders/ladder jacks were quick to set up/tear down to move so to me it seemed like alot of work to go with stand off's. Anything big big, I rented equipment- cherry pickers/trailer booms, extendable forktrucks.

that's about the basic's as far as i cant think of, and then as time goes on you will see what else you have to have to make the jobs nicer and run faster/more effeicent.

never butt joint any j channel-ever. That is a 100% sign of pure inexperienced hack. You overrun and bend flaps in the j channel to channel the water they will see down and out. You overrun the j channel and cut a miter joint so that way in the winter time when the plastic shrinks up, all your joints still look perfect since there will be zero open joints, just the same pretty miter like when you installed it initally. think of it like crown molding, the good guys never inside miter, they cope it...takes a tiny bit longer, but over the long haul the joint will ALWAYS look good since it accounts for expansion/contraction.

Another thiing i like to do, we'd cap the windows first, then when we'd install the j channel, I would use tyvek tape and start at the bottom of the window and tape over the nailing hem, the the sides-tape over the nailing hem, then the top. we essentially "flashed" the j channel. Did it do anything i the big picture? dont know but in my twisted mind it made sense, did'nt add much cost, and i slept better knowing I tried to stop another area where water could possibly get behind into the substrate

Last edited by IHI; 03-19-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:33 PM   #24
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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Originally Posted by Roofcheck View Post
Yep .
Roofing is first, then gutters & covers, then windows, then siding. That's my experience.[/QUOTE]

Windows are best.
Gutters are next but the average ticket is small and require the most service.
siding and roof are the same for us. We run 55% gross on these. But my roofing sub has 6 crews and gets them done in 1 day up to 30 sq. So we like roofing.

Finding a big/good siding sub has been a major challenge. That is why i want to bring in house
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:39 PM   #25
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


Quote:
Originally Posted by IHI
man you guys are tough

long bed truck- having a 16' or larger trailer is nicer, having an enclosed is better yet as it keeps all the boxes inteact from the elements so your not dealing with soggy boxes/wet material. I got all that covered, but typically we will set up homemade long saw horses to keep the material off the ground and killing the grass, and then just use a tarp to cover it all up to free up trucks/trailers for other purposes.

for years we used a homemade cut table. frame work was rabbited 2x4's that I inset a 24" wide chunk of plywood into 12' long and then I made a saw slide frame out of small angle iron and screwed it to the table. nice big flat work surface for marking/working on full length pieces. I later "upgraded" to a tapco siding cut table...it has it's advantages, esspecially when running gables we can set the angle once we figure it out and go, but in reality i would say save that money and just build a big cut table, they're more user freindly and saves ya $7-800.

have a typical 10'6" brake with a 14" throat. Once in awhile I wished Ida bought a brake with a 19" throat, but we made due. You can accessorize all ya want with cut off wheels, coil carts, etc...budget is your limit but I like the looks of oour bent brickmold over the tool we bought from tapco, that i sold the next month, that you could roll the brickmold style into it or bead roll fascia to keep it from warping. That's your call.

whole assortment of tin snips, right/left/straight cut aviation snips to get nice clean cuts in aluminum and vinyl. Big straight cut shears, like tapco brand sells works great for straight cuts.

trim nail holder/punch

dimpler pliers (cant think of real name), but you use them to louver the siding along the top hem to finish the wall and those lovers lock into the UT or DUT under the eaves, under windows, over doors, etc...

levels of all sizes, and you will find yourself cutting down torpedo levels to work in short area's. chaulk boxes with either baby powder or the retail store purple powder so you can chaulk long lines and leave no stain.

electric shears- i like these for the long straight cuts like above OHD's and such, faster and more accurate than scoring with a utility knife and works perfect in subzero temps with zero cracking issues.

smooth faced hammer, I personally like 16oz, the 24oz gets heavy pounding all day since you drive alot more siding nails in a day then you ever will framing nails.

We used to measure around the house to set starter strip, once i invested in a laser transit I never looked back. perfect line around the house everytime with alot faster set up then the measure/mark/chaulk line technique we used for yrs prior.

LOTS of various sized step ladders, extension ladders, ladder jacks, planks. I started with 2 32' ext ladders, a set of ladder jacks, a 20', 16' plank then a 12' expandable plank...then added more as time went on to speed up the process/aid in effeicencey. never used stand off's, but the most we ever did was typical 2 stories and the ladders/ladder jacks were quick to set up/tear down to move so to me it seemed like alot of work to go with stand off's. Anything big big, I rented equipment- cherry pickers/trailer booms, extendable forktrucks.

that's about the basic's as far as i cant think of, and then as time goes on you will see what else you have to have to make the jobs nicer and run faster/more effeicent.

never butt joint any j channel-ever. That is a 100% sign of pure inexperienced hack. You overrun and bend flaps in the j channel to channel the water they will see down and out. You overrun the j channel and cut a miter joint so that way in the winter time when the plastic shrinks up, all your joints still look perfect since there will be zero open joints, just the same pretty miter like when you installed it initally. think of it like crown molding, the good guys never inside miter, they cope it...takes a tiny bit longer, but over the long haul the joint will ALWAYS look good since it accounts for expansion/contraction.
There's the best answer yet. If you have this setup and guys that know how to install, you will be prepared. The j-channel method described here is exactly how I was taught 15 plus years ago. It separates the pros from the rest and it takes very little if any extra time. We do all our j-channel joints this way!

Tom Struble has many methods he has described on here that explain how to take installs to the next level! If you really want to separate yourself from others, take some time and search his posts. He has good ideas on water management and vinyl.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:44 PM   #26
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


Wow, wow, wow. This was the most entertaining thread I've read in a while.

Good luck man!

If I were you, I would get a damn good foreman to run the operations, not just 2-3 guys making 16/hr and hand them a brake.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:49 PM   #27
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


dimpler pliers (cant think of real name), but you use them to louver the siding along the top hem to finish the wall and those lovers lock into the UT or DUT under the eaves, under windows, over doors, etc...

We always called them crimpers.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:52 PM   #28
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


Quote:
Originally Posted by MattK
dimpler pliers (cant think of real name), but you use them to louver the siding along the top hem to finish the wall and those lovers lock into the UT or DUT under the eaves, under windows, over doors, etc...

We always called them crimpers.
Snap lock tool.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:56 PM   #29
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


Another "tool" to keep in the truck is windex/wipes of some kind. My wife buys the BJ's brand wipes in a tube and I water the fluid down around 9:1. Just a little bit of cleaner is more than enough. Oils in your fingers will leave prints everywhere, especially white metal.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:06 PM   #30
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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Originally Posted by overanalyze View Post
Snap lock tool.
Boom, there it is lol. Thanks for covering my brainfart
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:24 PM   #31
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


was just thinking...mainly because I hate cap work...but i incorporated a few other "out of the box" tools to help us out with certain flap folds/bends.

hope the picture shows up. They make these seaming pliers in various sizes, I have a 4" and a 6" version and they make a very nice/tight even 90* bend in materials of all kinds, but we use it mainly for cap work


Then for extra long flap bends, like the sides to cap OHD openings where you bend the flap from the side up onto the top, these average 6-12" depending on wall thickness obviously, but this hvac sheetmetal bender works great and saves ya from having to have a helper hold the piece with you in the brake to get a nice 90* bend on this little flap. Malco makes them in various lengths, i just have a 12" version and it works great. Use it all the time on gable to eave fascia bends to direct water down and away/flash the corners. They have 2 sides, 1 side is 1/2" deep and the other is 1" deep.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:11 AM   #32
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


one time i nailed it up with a rock
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:41 AM   #33
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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one time i nailed it up with a rock
Every once in a while, usually on a Saturday or Sunday, I've used a golf ball to help keep someone's siding firmly attached to the house. Some houses have had similar help from thousands of other helpful contractors.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:45 AM   #34
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


golf ball?..hack..
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:01 AM   #35
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golf ball?..hack..
got that right
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:07 AM   #36
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...
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:17 AM   #37
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


still wondering why the op doesn't just hire another sub?..but hopefully he won't be back since he remembered why he stopped coming here...[hand pump smilie]
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:58 PM   #38
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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Why would i need experience... Im hiring people that know what they are doing. Just need to get tools ready for them
Why don't you try asking the guys that you're thinking of hiring what they need? Just a thought...
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:09 PM   #39
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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still wondering why the op doesn't just hire another sub?..but hopefully he won't be back since he remembered why he stopped coming here...[hand pump smilie]
Well...how much to get you to head up to the great state on NH and take over his vinyl operation? Everyone has a number!
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:22 PM   #40
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Re: Starting A Siding Crew


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still wondering why the op doesn't just hire another sub?..but hopefully he won't be back since he remembered why he stopped coming here...[hand pump smilie]
obviously there must be some sort of history with the op, I dont know about it and frankly dont give a sheeot either, i left this place yrs ago because it's chaulked full of prissy pre-madonna's that like to type they do everything above and beyond any code that may exist 20yrs from now, and god forbid you call somebody out on their BS. It started out yrs ago as a good place, then got way to politically correct...aka fake as phuck. I'm a grown man, and gave what I got, both on here and in person, just too much estrogen flowing on here so I left and dealt with real life...but like to check in from time to time for a good chuckle.

anyhow, why dont he hire another sub? I personally can think of a few reasons:
1. Finding good reliable subs that do the quality of work you expect from them is like finding a good employee....sure, they are out there, but it gets rather tiresome throwing your money out the window going down the list of subs trying to find that crew you can trust on your job.

2. Depending on OP's situation, which none of us know for certain, he may just want to expand his business....now that's a weird fricken concept huh? Grow another branch to bring in revenue in addition to what he has going already. I know, I know, him and his crew will never be half as good as the crappiest guy on this forum because everybody here pisses excellence and ****s greatness.

3. More control, I sub the aspects I have to legally- electrical/plumbing/HVAC and then whatever the current situation is I weigh my options to keep everything else in house or sub some things to give us some free time to do and in and out job while the big jobs were underway.


Dont know what the OP did to piss in so many people's cheerio's on here, but i tell ya, since i dont come here much i have a different 3rd person persepctive than you regular's with a post a minute status, and the one ofthread i read/post in turns into the same gang bullying/fingering pointing BS of yrs ago, it reinerates why I stopped stopping in. Ya'll need to put the keyboard down and spend some time searching for your man card, this forum is literally the only one I've ever seen with this many look down my nose at you attitude, only to whine when somebody turns the cards back at'cha and work to get me suspended again LOL. Priceless.

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