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So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened

 
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:43 PM   #41
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


You guys should hang out with my boss. Chicken, pizza and beer after concrete pours.

Him and his family are invited to the wedding too.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:50 PM   #42
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


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Illegals aliens like most groups of criminals form herds to reduce the predator(L.E.O & ICE) pressure...

The massive increase in welfare programs, even for single healthy males has allowed marginaal workers to keep jobs that even 20 years they would have quickly been fired from.

Even in my lifetime the creative destruction of economic growth lowers the average number of years anyone works at a similar job class...

to keep your income up, the average worker at levels will have to learn new skills a few times during their career path.

Co-Ed workplaces have a different social matrix compared to all one sex workplaces...Title 'Nine'? has change the workplace, not always for the better.

The downside of the uber tax rates of the late 40s to 1980s is that it slowed the social changes due to the Cold War over spending taking a generation and half of high growth rates away from US citizens...
4ths' Third Law: The better the economic times, the weaker social bonds...
Fourth, I respect your experience in your field, but I have to say that you seem to like to use big words to make your points sound more legitimate than they really are...

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Old 01-25-2019, 08:00 PM   #43
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


I think the only color in the trades that is a factor is $GREEN$. Most of the immigrants (legal or illegal) here in Michigan work in three trades primarily: roofing, drywall, and more and more framing. There quality sometimes isn't as good but quantity/speed is the trade-off as most gc's are progress driven versus quality. Quality labor costs more than production labor. Most gc's especially the bigger commercial ones are low bid and schedule pushers. If you tell them job will take 5 days they want it done in 4.
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:12 PM   #44
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


Regarding welfare and it keeps people in jobs they would've been fired from 20 yrs ago:. Most won't take a "menial" job because they will lose money if they work.

Why work if your getting paid anyway?

I think there is a good business opportunity to reveal fraudsters if the govt. entities footing the tabs would pay a fee or percentage based on savings. We all know people getting comp., SS, etc that are perfectly able to work.
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:38 PM   #45
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


Hijack the thread? I made a comment. If you didn't like it you could have just ignored it. But since you didn't I'm just going to keep responding.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:28 PM   #46
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


Bars used to be social hubs. Drinking age got raised, OUI limits got lowered, penalties got boosted. The Guys just out of HS are barred from taking part.

Same thing went on for tailgating. Probably by the mid 80s, most larger companies put a lid in drinking due to the liability. Me, I'll still go to a bar or restaurant, tailgate, whatever

Around here, most of the bowling alleys have closed, it seems broadly speaking people aren't as sociable as they used to be. Various social clubs, rollerskating, dance halls, etc closed or are dwindling down.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:32 PM   #47
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


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You guys should hang out with my boss. Chicken, pizza and beer after concrete pours.

Him and his family are invited to the wedding too.
I always thought milestone celebrations were great. Sometimes the milestone is you made it through the week.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:45 PM   #48
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


Not so much related to the jobsite, but society in general...

Radio, then TV radically shifted the way we lived. Then the internet came along and made those shifts look minor. That's become the avenue for news, social interaction, shopping and whatnot. Science fiction come true.

Only history that has yet to be written can say if that's overall good or bad for civilization.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:48 PM   #49
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


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Any of the ethnic groups - from south of the border or north of the border, hang together at meal times.

And that's just how it was when I was a kid, and for all the generations before me.

That's why we have Pole Town and Cork Town and Greek Town and German Town as the actual names of places in the Detroit and Ann Arbor area.

I cannot imagine how my grandparents would have managed, had they not found their way to a community where there was a a prevalent 2nd language that they understood.
Around here, the French Canadians had their own contractors and crews, just like they had their own barbers, etc. They weren't running mixed crews, they had great camaraderie. An old friend of mine decided to start contracting when he was 50. Pretty much ran a French Canadian crew - that was his heritage.

His grandfather did finish carpentry, built ins, cabinets, etc. He was poorly educated and used no math in his work. He'd lay out an entire kitchen on sticks, then build it. That's the first way I learned.

Common culture, common experiences makes it easier to have a tight crew.
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Old 01-26-2019, 08:42 AM   #50
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


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Bars used to be social hubs. Drinking age got raised, OUI limits got lowered, penalties got boosted. The Guys just out of HS are barred from taking part.

Same thing went on for tailgating. Probably by the mid 80s, most larger companies put a lid in drinking due to the liability. Me, I'll still go to a bar or restaurant, tailgate, whatever

Around here, most of the bowling alleys have closed, it seems broadly speaking people aren't as sociable as they used to be. Various social clubs, rollerskating, dance halls, etc closed or are dwindling down.
Hmm,and may well be another reason millenials are returning to the city. The ability to walk or get a taxi to the neighborhood pub.

Elks, Moose, Eagles clubs all on the fast decline too.

A big part I expect is the dying off of The Greatest Generation.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:27 AM   #51
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


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Around here, the French Canadians had their own contractors and crews, just like they had their own barbers, etc. They weren't running mixed crews, they had great camaraderie. An old friend of mine decided to start contracting when he was 50. Pretty much ran a French Canadian crew - that was his heritage.

His grandfather did finish carpentry, built ins, cabinets, etc. He was poorly educated and used no math in his work. He'd lay out an entire kitchen on sticks, then build it. That's the first way I learned.

Common culture, common experiences makes it easier to have a tight crew.
Ahh French Canadians. When I worked in the aerospace industry one of our biggest customers was Bombardier Aerospace, the French Canadians had offices in our plant. They are a different bunch, it’s always their way or the highway no matter how wrong they were. All but the black ones had a major superiority complex. They also all had girl names.
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Old 01-26-2019, 01:14 PM   #52
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


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Many things led up to it. Not packing your own lunch daily and having to run for food. The demands of modern life, like gotta git home to watch the kids so momma can go to work. Or Go socialize in teh modern sense, get to the gaming console asap. In general a fast paced demanding life that has little time to just shoot the chit and build relationships.

If you never experienced real camaraderie , you don't desire it or know it's value. Was a point in time if you didn't try to fit in and be part of the crew ... you were really odd and treated as such.

Large commercial work and getting to know other tradesmen, everybody is at odds with everybody else. "that DB plumber did that and forked us over" attitude has run rampant over the 30 years and just gotten worse. Use to be fun to harass the other trades in a light hearted fun way... Few have the balls aka are secure enough to take it.

Just a reflection of the society we live in. When the trades are viewed as being less than "professional" college educated work ... who wants to hang out with other losers kind a mentality may be at work.
I don't work on large jobsites very often these days, but have in the past.

I've been on one off and on for the last 8 months or so. It has been fun. The older guys get it, the younger guys take it pretty well.

I'm usually the instigator, being the oldest dude there, I remember the good old days.

One thing that has changed is that I may be the oldest, but not by much. The average age is slowly ticking up.

When I started, I dont think there were too many 45-50 year olds on the jobsites. Now it is pretty standard.

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Old 01-26-2019, 01:17 PM   #53
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


I have read this thread so far, and, I have been giving this topic a little bit of thought.

Why don't guys hang out together any more, seems to be the theme. Here are my reasons based on where I live and where I work:

The amount of work it takes to get ahead, or, at least stay above water. Most families need two working parents. Most companies reward those who work the hardest and longest. Running a company or just a sole prop takes a lot of time and effort..........there's a lot of competition from all sides. A lot of people, who at the end of the day, still have a long list of tasks and projects to do. Not much free time, even on weekends for social gatherings.

Diversity........people get together because of common backgrounds, jobs, interests, etc. The more common threads there are, the more the desire to get together and form groups. Relationships tend to form slowly, as each person tends to "check" the other out. You can't form a viable relationship if (1) You can't communicate, (2) Opposing cultural values, (3) No life experience commonalities (ie: upbringing, social status, outside influences, other social activities). This all brings me to my next reason:

Tribalism and Caste Systems. People in the US don't realize that most of the planet is divided, sub-divided and divided even more.........all the way down to where people in this village don't interact with people in another village. All of this is based on survival and the protection of your particular group. Mexico down to South America, Africa and the Middle East are tribal based. Asia and India are caste based. The reason I bring this up is that some people are just not "keen" on talking to you or getting together. They never will be. They only get together with certain others. That's it.

Anyway, others had good points, I just wanted to drill down a bit on the issue.
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:32 PM   #54
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


"The truth that we do know for sure, is that it is our responsibility and it is in our best interest, to live our lives in such a way that creates Heaven on Earth and puts Hell on Earth far away.”
― C. JoyBell C.

"the difference between Heaven and Hell is who is there with You." Unknown?

Nice work Cwatbay @ # 53, Amen.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:04 PM   #55
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


I had a fridge in my shop, it was so cold, the beer would put icicles on your tonsils.

Used to always keep several cases in there. Guys wouldn't abuse the privilege. I typically would have a beer, maybe two with them on Friday night.

One night after second beer and saying goodbyes, last guy always locked up.

Just walking out to truck in slides one of employees wives sideways. ..jumping out and blaming me her husband got drunk every Friday night

I stopped buying beer, said they could still use fridge, but I wasn't taking sheet anymore from any spouses.

Turns out when everybody left, he'd always stop at bar after shop and get real full.

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Old 01-26-2019, 10:34 PM   #56
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


I know the names of every one of my men's (and women s ) children, wives ect...

Even the kid digging ditches I've had one on one lunch with

Most of my subs the same.

We don't party together anymore - kids and families. But we still get together. Back on the day every Friday we got down

Worked on many of their homes and donate materials often.

Still let them split the scrap metal pile

Still that way for some of us hoss

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Old 01-27-2019, 12:40 AM   #57
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


It's what I miss the most about being a regular carpenter on a job and a laborer as a kid, the camaraderie. It's some of my finest memories. From the old timers that yelled at us to the safety meetings with a wheel barrow full of beer and ice.


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Old 01-27-2019, 07:02 AM   #58
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


Leo g isn't wrong. The effects he describes is accurate. I live in a sanctuary City.
A difference of observation or opinion is just that. Jumping straight to "hate speech" and other millennial trigger phrases is pointless.

If you notice a shift, look at the lack of tradesmen. . the path is somewhat difficult to take. Harder than before. Liabilites are high for those whoeont get it, unless your illegal, which means nobody to sue .

The immigrant population works the system. It's not to say they don't work hard, as they commonlynputnin some of the longest back breaking work. They work Saturdays, sometimes Sunday as well. But go to the soccer field on Sunday. The interests are totally different.

Yes, the dual income factor; keeping up with the Jones. The problem also has become somewhat of a gender battle. Men change more diapers than before. Cook their own dinners . Do their own laundry . Wear skinny jeans.

But for the young, their bond to random social media friendships are stronger than the brotherhood. Maybe it's related to the fact that the new generation doesn't believe in apprenticeship, or putting in your dues, or working your way up.
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:27 AM   #59
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


Like what Griz started this thread out with, I miss the get togethers. When we were larger (16 guys), we had weekly “staff meetings” Fridays at 4. There was social value, but there was also learning. Leads would learn me about better ways of getting chit done and/or they would learn why I scheduled/detailed/planned something the way I did. At some point the liability got too high and we had to cut out the beverages.

Now, we have a no drinking on the clock policy. No adult beverages are acceptable on site, with the exception of the customer coming out with a beverage and even then, the limit is 1.

As a smaller company now, I often buy lunch for everyone on site (probably once a week). The subs enjoy it, but for me it’s important for my kids (helpers and partners in the business) to hear the experienced guys talk about the old days… describe the chit show on some other project… learn us on some new product or method… It’s amazing how much they take in from these casual discussions.

On Friday, my concrete guys poured a basement slab for us. It’s a legal, Mexican, family crew. I got pizzas delivered and we sat and we got some Spanish lessons and we helped with their English. We talked about why it was important for them to have a better mastery of English. They were surprised to learn that we were Trump supporters and we were surprised to learn that they were too.

I also learned that they were curious as to why I stayed on-site and watched them the whole time. After I explained why they became much more engaged in the conversation. They were nervous, worried and afraid to talk with me there. That was alleviated.

It was a valuable hour and a half for many reasons.
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:27 AM   #60
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Re: So Just What The Fvuck Has Happened


Meh, I hate people anyways.

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