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so just what the fvuck has happened

7K views 79 replies 35 participants last post by  Mike-B 
#1 ·
used to have a case of beer or 2 or 3 on payday on the tailgate...

if it was too hot or too cold we went to a pizza joint, usually a roundtable...:thumbsup:

bbq or serious pasta night at my house for the crew & subs once or twice a month...:thumbup:

lots of camaraderie, crew was close to each other & it showed.

now days guys go their own way at lunch, on a big job many times don't know each others real names...

fear of god if i walk the job and start asking questions either as the gc or super...

i am still in contact with a few of my old crew...

most are retired and enjoying life....

the few still working say it's nothing like the old days...

WHY NOT?????

it's part of a whole bunch wrong with the industry today....
 
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#36 ·
Illegals aliens like most groups of criminals form herds to reduce the predator(L.E.O & ICE) pressure...

The massive increase in welfare programs, even for single healthy males has allowed marginaal workers to keep jobs that even 20 years they would have quickly been fired from.

Even in my lifetime the creative destruction of economic growth lowers the average number of years anyone works at a similar job class...

to keep your income up, the average worker at levels will have to learn new skills a few times during their career path.

Co-Ed workplaces have a different social matrix compared to all one sex workplaces...Title 'Nine'? has change the workplace, not always for the better.

The downside of the uber tax rates of the late 40s to 1980s is that it slowed the social changes due to the Cold War over spending taking a generation and half of high growth rates away from US citizens...
4ths' Third Law: The better the economic times, the weaker social bonds...
 
#43 ·
I think the only color in the trades that is a factor is $GREEN$. Most of the immigrants (legal or illegal) here in Michigan work in three trades primarily: roofing, drywall, and more and more framing. There quality sometimes isn't as good but quantity/speed is the trade-off as most gc's are progress driven versus quality. Quality labor costs more than production labor. Most gc's especially the bigger commercial ones are low bid and schedule pushers. If you tell them job will take 5 days they want it done in 4.
 
#44 ·
Regarding welfare and it keeps people in jobs they would've been fired from 20 yrs ago:. Most won't take a "menial" job because they will lose money if they work.

Why work if your getting paid anyway?

I think there is a good business opportunity to reveal fraudsters if the govt. entities footing the tabs would pay a fee or percentage based on savings. We all know people getting comp., SS, etc that are perfectly able to work.
 
#45 ·
Hijack the thread? I made a comment. If you didn't like it you could have just ignored it. But since you didn't I'm just going to keep responding.
 
#46 ·
Bars used to be social hubs. Drinking age got raised, OUI limits got lowered, penalties got boosted. The Guys just out of HS are barred from taking part.

Same thing went on for tailgating. Probably by the mid 80s, most larger companies put a lid in drinking due to the liability. Me, I'll still go to a bar or restaurant, tailgate, whatever

Around here, most of the bowling alleys have closed, it seems broadly speaking people aren't as sociable as they used to be. Various social clubs, rollerskating, dance halls, etc closed or are dwindling down.
 
#48 ·
Not so much related to the jobsite, but society in general...

Radio, then TV radically shifted the way we lived. Then the internet came along and made those shifts look minor. That's become the avenue for news, social interaction, shopping and whatnot. Science fiction come true.

Only history that has yet to be written can say if that's overall good or bad for civilization.
 
#53 ·
I have read this thread so far, and, I have been giving this topic a little bit of thought.

Why don't guys hang out together any more, seems to be the theme. Here are my reasons based on where I live and where I work:

The amount of work it takes to get ahead, or, at least stay above water. Most families need two working parents. Most companies reward those who work the hardest and longest. Running a company or just a sole prop takes a lot of time and effort..........there's a lot of competition from all sides. A lot of people, who at the end of the day, still have a long list of tasks and projects to do. Not much free time, even on weekends for social gatherings.

Diversity........people get together because of common backgrounds, jobs, interests, etc. The more common threads there are, the more the desire to get together and form groups. Relationships tend to form slowly, as each person tends to "check" the other out. You can't form a viable relationship if (1) You can't communicate, (2) Opposing cultural values, (3) No life experience commonalities (ie: upbringing, social status, outside influences, other social activities). This all brings me to my next reason:

Tribalism and Caste Systems. People in the US don't realize that most of the planet is divided, sub-divided and divided even more.........all the way down to where people in this village don't interact with people in another village. All of this is based on survival and the protection of your particular group. Mexico down to South America, Africa and the Middle East are tribal based. Asia and India are caste based. The reason I bring this up is that some people are just not "keen" on talking to you or getting together. They never will be. They only get together with certain others. That's it.

Anyway, others had good points, I just wanted to drill down a bit on the issue.
 
#54 ·
"The truth that we do know for sure, is that it is our responsibility and it is in our best interest, to live our lives in such a way that creates Heaven on Earth and puts Hell on Earth far away.”
― C. JoyBell C.

"the difference between Heaven and Hell is who is there with You." Unknown?

Nice work Cwatbay @ # 53, Amen.
 
#55 ·
I had a fridge in my shop, it was so cold, the beer would put icicles on your tonsils.

Used to always keep several cases in there. Guys wouldn't abuse the privilege. I typically would have a beer, maybe two with them on Friday night.

One night after second beer and saying goodbyes, last guy always locked up.

Just walking out to truck in slides one of employees wives sideways. ..jumping out and blaming me her husband got drunk every Friday night

I stopped buying beer, said they could still use fridge, but I wasn't taking sheet anymore from any spouses.

Turns out when everybody left, he'd always stop at bar after shop and get real full.

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#56 · (Edited)
I know the names of every one of my men's (and women s ) children, wives ect...

Even the kid digging ditches I've had one on one lunch with

Most of my subs the same.

We don't party together anymore - kids and families. But we still get together. Back on the day every Friday we got down

Worked on many of their homes and donate materials often.

Still let them split the scrap metal pile

Still that way for some of us hoss

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#58 ·
Leo g isn't wrong. The effects he describes is accurate. I live in a sanctuary City.
A difference of observation or opinion is just that. Jumping straight to "hate speech" and other millennial trigger phrases is pointless.

If you notice a shift, look at the lack of tradesmen. . the path is somewhat difficult to take. Harder than before. Liabilites are high for those whoeont get it, unless your illegal, which means nobody to sue .

The immigrant population works the system. It's not to say they don't work hard, as they commonlynputnin some of the longest back breaking work. They work Saturdays, sometimes Sunday as well. But go to the soccer field on Sunday. The interests are totally different.

Yes, the dual income factor; keeping up with the Jones. The problem also has become somewhat of a gender battle. Men change more diapers than before. Cook their own dinners . Do their own laundry . Wear skinny jeans.

But for the young, their bond to random social media friendships are stronger than the brotherhood. Maybe it's related to the fact that the new generation doesn't believe in apprenticeship, or putting in your dues, or working your way up.
 
#61 ·
Le.
. Maybe it's related to the fact that the new generation doesn't believe in apprenticeship, or putting in your dues, or working your way up.
I think that’s a huge problem. To be a heating, plumbing, electric contractor takes years on apprenticeship 6, 8 & 8 respectively. No millennial wants to put that in. Even when I was in high school students didn’t want to put in the minimum 4 (plus almost an AS degree) to get a electrician journeyman card. Not to mention all the stories of EC’s not giving their apprentices credit for hours worked to stall their journeyman process.

My plumber tells me there’s no one left to hire who knows how to do new construction. All the contractors who have the capability are strictly working for the big buildersor commercial. I don’t know if that’s just his way of trying to jack up his rates with me or not but I can believe it. It’s not rocket science but all his employees are a bunch of dumbasses so....... No one wants to learn and take the time to fit in the required classes, I guess it seems like an endless journey to a millennial.


I doubt my state will ever wise up and go the route of CA or not but something will have to be done because eventually there won’t be anyone who can plumb, wire or heat a house.
 
#59 ·
Like what Griz started this thread out with, I miss the get togethers. When we were larger (16 guys), we had weekly “staff meetings” Fridays at 4. There was social value, but there was also learning. Leads would learn me about better ways of getting chit done and/or they would learn why I scheduled/detailed/planned something the way I did. At some point the liability got too high and we had to cut out the beverages.

Now, we have a no drinking on the clock policy. No adult beverages are acceptable on site, with the exception of the customer coming out with a beverage and even then, the limit is 1.

As a smaller company now, I often buy lunch for everyone on site (probably once a week). The subs enjoy it, but for me it’s important for my kids (helpers and partners in the business) to hear the experienced guys talk about the old days… describe the chit show on some other project… learn us on some new product or method… It’s amazing how much they take in from these casual discussions.

On Friday, my concrete guys poured a basement slab for us. It’s a legal, Mexican, family crew. I got pizzas delivered and we sat and we got some Spanish lessons and we helped with their English. We talked about why it was important for them to have a better mastery of English. They were surprised to learn that we were Trump supporters and we were surprised to learn that they were too.

I also learned that they were curious as to why I stayed on-site and watched them the whole time. After I explained why they became much more engaged in the conversation. They were nervous, worried and afraid to talk with me there. That was alleviated.

It was a valuable hour and a half for many reasons.
 
#67 ·
Yes people suck. Back when I was an employee we spent time together then I realized why am I hanging around guys I see everyday, I should be out picking up women. Got burnt out doing that and decided to keep the woman I married. After that it seemed like I was the only one that would rather go home to his wife.

One thing that bothers me is seems like everyone I meet or people that I run into from the past want to become my best friend. But if I start a friendship they end up constantly bugging me or coming over uninvited.

I've got a friend for nearly 50 years we never spent much time together because his wife was a pain, he gets divorced buys a house and of course calls me to work on it, fine but he says "Hey I'm single now we need to go out" me "I'm still married WTF and I told you not to marry her when she showed me her breast job you paid for."
 
#64 ·
I have noticed that most younger guys dont wear tool bags. They just put their stuff on the ground or a table. Just seems weird to me. I'm a tool bag guy. The odd thing is none ever tells them to get their bags on. They just wander around picking up and putting down tools and fasteners.

I have lightened my bags over the years though. I used to probably carry 20 pounds in my bags when I was production siding.

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#66 ·
It would seem that bags vs. no bags is more of a function of what you do. We have a NO bags policy once cabinets start to go in. No one wears bags around the cabinets. The biggest culprit is the sparky’s bags putting a scratch in a door.

Hard to imagine a framer without.
 
#68 · (Edited)
Same, although I broke the rule myself because I'm not dumb enough to scratch cabinets or walls even as wide as I am lol......

But I was dumb enough to drop my trim hammer on a bamboo floor and dent it 36 hrs before the Parade of Homes when it was upside down in my bags .....

No exception to the rule now. Lol

I have a 29 year-old lead Carpenter who is the best Carpenter on the crew, including two that are in their 50s. Very talented and he is by far the highest paid employee, including our superintendent. He'll of a welder, shop cabinet guy, can form, frame and trim like a beast. Even has a great understanding of spans, codes and best practices.

When they are framing, generally is on the chop saw after he lays plates out, he hates wall work. He only gets his bags on when he starts framing the roof. When he's on the saw or laying out plates he carries a speed square in his back pocket a framing square in his hand, a hundred foot tape on a caribiner, 40 ft tape on his belt and chalk box in his back pocket. Kinda the same on remodel work, different tools and a bag.

No one has ever brought it up, if they did I would tell them my Tom Brady/backup center story. Lol

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#70 · (Edited)
Some of my best memories as a kid are sitting on a pile of fan fold during lunch listening to my dad and the guys who worked for him ball bust. The framer, drywall guys usually dropped in as well. My grandfather was also on site sometimes too. A few beers were consumed but nobody was hammered.

. Now my guys don’t even stop for lunch ever. Many of the Hispanic framers, siding, roofing, landscaping etc crews at the sites I’m at sit and enjoy their meal as a crew. Similar to how I remember as a kid.


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#71 ·
The Latinos are the ones really keeping it alive. I've seen those guys bring hot plates, mircowaves, hot plates, and canister stoves. I usually can't even be bothered to heat my leftover slop I'm eating, if I bother to stop at all.
Lunchtime loses a lot of its luster when you're on your own dime.
 
#73 ·
Yeah, that's what's done around here.

On particularly bad days, the joke is that we will be observing the 2:30 15 minute coffee break. Rarely happens, but some days it HAS to happen.

Working alone is funny. Usually I skip in an effort to leave faster. Sometimes I do the full deal and sit and everything. Some days I just pick a period of time where I'll take my tools off and work less hard for 20 or 30 minutes. Negotiating with yourself is bizarre.
 
#74 ·
I usually work till I'm sick of it. Happens around 6:30-7. If I reach a breaking point where I'll start a new different operation I may just head out so I don't have to rearrange my brain, come in the next morning after I thought about it overnight to see if I missed something or can find a better way to do it.
 
#76 ·
More tech on the job site,( telebooms, generators,battery tools,man lifts) all equals smaller crews, less social interaction.

Fewer days/ weeks at each job = less time to "move in" with the kitchen etc...

As I get older, the more I need/heed the 2-2.5hr. rule, if you've been sitting, get up and walk around, if you been standing, sit DOWN for 5 minutes, carry on.

I seen hundreds of people leave "lonely" jobs for lower paying jobs in a crowd....

I will make a special effort to interact more with the New workers and the old this year. And ask to eat lunch with a fellow sub once or twice a week.

AS a former Union member /local office holder, I found it is easy to over share info that morally challenged people can and will use against you.

Interaction with bad actors won't improve anyone's' work day/life

When in doubt about a person's character, don't share any personal data beyond vague allusions.
 
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