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So How Was It In The "old" Days?

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:33 PM   #41
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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What about the stemwall?

Do they stringline it at all, or just.....I don't know...Eyeball it?
They snap lines on the footings and string the tops of the forms. Square up with a tape and bow the walls out. It’s crude, which brings me back to my first post on the subject; framers responsibility to square the house.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:57 PM   #42
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I tried to post some pictures of this pig I had a crew do this summer. Of course they won’t load. They showed up at 8:30, 2 guys snapping center lines on the ground( prow, 12’ cuts done with a screedboard and 4’ level). 2 guys stringing out footer boards, 3 guys cutting and bending bar. 12:00 the batch plant manager shows up to check the site, foreman says he doesn’t think they will be ready by 1:00.......no chit, they only have 3 boards staked. Better hold the pump and 50 yds of concrete off until 3:00.

Then they head to the shade of some trees. The plant guy asks them where the hell they are going. We gotta eat and rest he says.

3:00 rolls around and they are waiting for the pump to get set up.

Walls done the same way. I gotta say, it was pretty damn close considering.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:06 PM   #43
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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I tried to post some pictures of this pig I had a crew do this summer. Of course they won’t load. They showed up at 8:30, 2 guys snapping center lines on the ground( prow, 12’ cuts done with a screedboard and 4’ level). 2 guys stringing out footer boards, 3 guys cutting and bending bar. 12:00 the batch plant manager shows up to check the site, foreman says he doesn’t think they will be ready by 1:00.......no chit, they only have 3 boards staked. Better hold the pump and 50 yds of concrete off until 3:00.

Then they head to the shade of some trees. The plant guy asks them where the hell they are going. We gotta eat and rest he says.

3:00 rolls around and they are waiting for the pump to get set up.

Walls done the same way. I gotta say, it was pretty damn close considering.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:24 PM   #44
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I sorta feel sorry for our newer guys. When I started out, I learned from guys that had been driving mixers since the Nixon administration (I’m only 37 now), and where I’m at now the top guy only has 3 more years than I do. At 12 years in, I’m one of the “old salts,” and that’s sort of a shame.

The times of guys doing stuff that may look sketchy on its face, like getting a little close to a trench or climbing up on a bank to gain more height on your chutes (like I did just today, actually) is pretty much over. “Get a pump or get your wheelbarrow out” they’ll say.

I consider myself fortunate to have learned from those guys and try to impart it on the younger crowd as much as possible.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:38 PM   #45
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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I think one of the biggest differences between now and fifty or so years ago, is the shear complexity of the systems we're installing.

Someone was asking me the other day about California's latest requirement for low-flow shower heads.

I think it's gone down from the old standby of 2.2 GPM, to maybe 1.5? And I think it changed in the beginning of 2018? And they wanted to know how California was different from the National Standard. Can't remember.

I've got so many Codes and Standards and Manufacturers Required Installation Methods banging around in my head like a bunch of cue balls in a suitcase. But I can't possibly have them all. And someone who specializes in one or two trades is going to have the ever-growing body of Regulations at their fingertips, that apply to their trade, so they are going to be better and faster than a guy who does it all.

And these days, it's all about the money. Craftsmanship, or a healthy community, or love of a trade for it's own sake, is way down on the list.
Now it's tied to the PSI of the system
"Provide Lav faucets with a max. flow rate of 1.2 gallons per minute (GPM), min. flow rate of 0.8 GPM @ 80 PSI", truly angels dancing on the head of a pin stuff, just going to keep getting worse too as the screws keep turning on the Title 24 regs.
Here's some more, part of the one below seems to be written wrong which happens all the time too.....
"New water closets shall use no more than 1.28 gallons of water per flush, lavatories many not exceed 1.2 GPM, only temporarily thn default to max 1.8 GPM @ 60 PSI (kitchens only) other faucets, 1.2 GPM @ 60 PSI"
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:14 AM   #46
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Now it's tied to the PSI of the system
"Provide Lav faucets with a max. flow rate of 1.2 gallons per minute (GPM), min. flow rate of 0.8 GPM @ 80 PSI", truly angels dancing on the head of a pin stuff, just going to keep getting worse too as the screws keep turning on the Title 24 regs.
Here's some more, part of the one below seems to be written wrong which happens all the time too.....
"New water closets shall use no more than 1.28 gallons of water per flush, lavatories many not exceed 1.2 GPM, only temporarily thn default to max 1.8 GPM @ 60 PSI (kitchens only) other faucets, 1.2 GPM @ 60 PSI"
and the first thing people do is defeat the water saving/pressure reducing features of a fixture. If that does not work they will just pull it and replace them. and not just plumbing stuff...electrical is another issue.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:46 AM   #47
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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and the first thing people do is defeat the water saving/pressure reducing features of a fixture. If that does not work they will just pull it and replace them. and not just plumbing stuff...electrical is another issue.
I've heard of a lot of guys who install AFCI breakers to get inspected, then pull them and install breakers that actually work after the owner gets a C/O.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:13 PM   #48
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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I've heard of a lot of guys who install AFCI breakers to get inspected, then pull them and install breakers that actually work after the owner gets a C/O.
very common.

lighting controls/occupancy sensors go pretty quick also.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:27 PM   #49
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
I've heard of a lot of guys who install AFCI breakers to get inspected, then pull them and install breakers that actually work after the owner gets a C/O.
I know a guy that did that. Wired up a new home, got it all inspected, pulled all the AFCI breakers and merrily deposited the check. A month later, the AHJ found out about it when the house went to close and the buyer's HI noticed there were no AFCIs.

Guy ended up losing his license and hence how he puts food on the table. I've always said, "The stingiest person spends the most." And boy did he pay a lot. Not worth it in my book. I'm not gonna risk my career to save Joe Bloe a few bucks.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:49 PM   #50
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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I know a guy that did that. Wired up a new home, got it all inspected, pulled all the AFCI breakers and merrily deposited the check. A month later, the AHJ found out about it when the house went to close and the buyer's HI noticed there were no AFCIs.

Guy ended up losing his license and hence how he puts food on the table. I've always said, "The stingiest person spends the most." And boy did he pay a lot. Not worth it in my book. I'm not gonna risk my career to save Joe Bloe a few bucks.
i won't do it nor will my EC, but owners often do it on their own or hire any number of idiots off cl that are more than happy to do it...
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:04 PM   #51
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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I know a guy that did that. Wired up a new home, got it all inspected, pulled all the AFCI breakers and merrily deposited the check. A month later, the AHJ found out about it when the house went to close and the buyer's HI noticed there were no AFCIs.

Guy ended up losing his license and hence how he puts food on the table. I've always said, "The stingiest person spends the most." And boy did he pay a lot. Not worth it in my book. I'm not gonna risk my career to save Joe Bloe a few bucks.
Don't think it's about saving money.

It's about getting a functioning electrical system.

I personally don't do that, except I would on something I built for myself, if it ever came up.

I will not bend or break any rules for customers. Ever.

For myself, I do as I please.

I don't know what it's like in Iowa, but here they could not yank a license for that.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:41 PM   #52
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


People don't like the AFCI's because they trip so easy, nothing to do with money.

For the ever tightening of the screws on all of the energy stuff it's to 'save the planet' but along with that comes the philosophy change from making the pie bigger for everybody to cutting it into smaller and smaller pieces, all regulated of course by the government. In Cali it's gone incredibly centralized. Almost every project gets a title 24 report, almost all of them get registered, all that do go to a giant central computer where that data is stored.

The next step will be when one goes to sell one's house, or for some other reason, the state will check what is on the central computer and if it doesn't align with what's on the property there will be penalties, civil for starting but soon enough there will be criminal charges and penalties. After all, with the survival of the planet at stake what's a couple of years behind bars for not having a low flow toilet?
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:21 PM   #53
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


AFCIs and hard wired smoke detectors in series draws the biggest bitch from clients. Ever.
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Old 12-30-2018, 07:56 AM   #54
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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My grandfather considered a man to be a carpenter when he could hand cut a roof, build stairs, and hang old school windows and doors. And I don't mean off the shelf units.

I still have the mortiser and the hinge plate set for setting up door slabs.

I never hung an old school window, but I saw the old men do it when I was a kid. The lumber yard delivered the window "panels" ( I don't know what they are technically called), and the carpenter would case the opening and install the stops and the stool. The ones I remember didn't have sash weights.....I am not that old...but they had "spring rods(?)" on either side, and the top window panel was fixed and caulked or nailed in after predrilling.

No screws like we use now until the 80s.

We have really seen a revolution is materials, tools, and skills.
I'd say that still applies. What business do you have calling yourself a carpenter if you can't layout, build stairs, cut a roof, etc?
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:23 AM   #55
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I can still remember back when basement walls where formed up with shiplap , poured , then wood was used for the subfloor. When my dad built our house he ripped 2x12 down to 2x6 with a hand saw. We had a old carpenter that lived close by, taught me a lot of things . He made all of our cabinets. Living on a farm we did a lot of building. Gave me a lot of experience for later in life when I changed from a mechanic to construction.
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:31 PM   #56
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


One of the most awesome things I saw was hand ripped rafters that were ripped at an angle so they tapered.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:11 PM   #57
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


When I was a kid, there were half a dozen old men who were carpenters...my grandfather was one of them. When a new home was built in our community, many times these guys would get together and build the home. All of them were farmers, and did carpentry work as a side line, and of course, didn't have an actual construction company....but they would work together.

One guy who must have been 80 when I first knew him ( I was 10)....he was the father of one of the main guys...he was too old to be on a roof, or ladder, but what he did was hand cut the rafters and he didn't use a circular saw....he had a chest with his handsaws fitted into slots, and he had several as I remember them...crosscut, rip, and so on....and he would figure the angle and bevel and mark them and cut each and every rafter on the ground, on a pair of saw horses....cut the birds mouth, the tails, and of course, he had a stubby pencil and a piece of 1x12 covered with the dimensions and his calculations....his framing square was worn nearly smooth......

Now he was a carpenter.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:21 PM   #58
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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One of the most awesome things I saw was hand ripped rafters that were ripped at an angle so they tapered.


Those and the curved ones for flared eaves. Just to throw it out there,there are framing blades made to cut curves and circles. They are not outrageously priced. A company called Arcus makes them,pretty nifty thing to have. I use them to cut arch forms.
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:48 PM   #59
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I've seen a Disston crosscut saw that would have been good for cutting beams and timbers. Only one I've ever seen.
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Old 12-30-2018, 07:58 PM   #60
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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When I was a kid, there were half a dozen old men who were carpenters...my grandfather was one of them. When a new home was built in our community, many times these guys would get together and build the home. All of them were farmers, and did carpentry work as a side line, and of course, didn't have an actual construction company....but they would work together.

One guy who must have been 80 when I first knew him ( I was 10)....he was the father of one of the main guys...he was too old to be on a roof, or ladder, but what he did was hand cut the rafters and he didn't use a circular saw....he had a chest with his handsaws fitted into slots, and he had several as I remember them...crosscut, rip, and so on....and he would figure the angle and bevel and mark them and cut each and every rafter on the ground, on a pair of saw horses....cut the birds mouth, the tails, and of course, he had a stubby pencil and a piece of 1x12 covered with the dimensions and his calculations....his framing square was worn nearly smooth......

Now he was a carpenter.
thats a good story ,would of been cool to see him work

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