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So How Was It In The "old" Days?

 
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:19 AM   #21
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


It's like international trade, instead of a country producing all of it's own goods, it produces those it can with the highest efficiency and lowest cost, then trades other countries who can produce other goods at a relatively lower price. When two parties have a comparative advantage it's more effective to have both specialize then trade. Construction is no different, people realized that the same principles apply.

I can paint my own house, but I'm better off going out and performing my trade for money and paying someone else to do what they are best at. No matter what task I'm performing I'm paying for it with opportunity cost.

Can you do it all yourself? Sure but you will never achieve the same increase in productivity that is achieved from repetition like those in a specialized trade.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:08 AM   #22
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


had a 28oz hammer and wanted a 32 oz like my younger brother had .got framing guns fast i could because could not imagine being able to put those nails in as fast as my older brother .
I love all the new tools I can own now .they used to be such a large part of my income .being able to do such nice work in less time feels good .trac saws ,pocket screws .tenon machines[domino] oh and pex for plumbing .
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:16 AM   #23
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
It's like international trade, instead of a country producing all of it's own goods, it produces those it can with the highest efficiency and lowest cost, then trades other countries who can produce other goods at a relatively lower price. When two parties have a comparative advantage it's more effective to have both specialize then trade. Construction is no different, people realized that the same principles apply.

I can paint my own house, but I'm better off going out and performing my trade for money and paying someone else to do what they are best at. No matter what task I'm performing I'm paying for it with opportunity cost.

Can you do it all yourself? Sure but you will never achieve the same increase in productivity that is achieved from repetition like those in a specialized trade.
It depends on how fast you are at what quality level, as well as what the nature of the project is. This isn't a gimmee for all situations.
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Old 12-26-2018, 01:19 PM   #24
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I was fortunate enough to start with a crew that did a lot in house.

Then, when I went out on my own, I subbed very little. Which works on small jobs, not so well as the jobs get bigger.

Right now, I sub out all roofing, don't need the liability, and after framing and sheathing the roof, I'm ready to get my ass back on the ground. Only roofing I do myself is cedar shingles on my own outbuildings.

I also sub out HVAC. Wouldn't even know where to start with a furnace or duct work.


Other stuff, like drywall, I can do it, and do it well, but not quickly. So on larger projects, I start subbing stuff like this.








Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_dj1 View Post
Anybody seen batter boards used lately?

Is there another way to lay out a foundation?
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:56 PM   #25
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


i`m 60 this december 31`st

my dad taught me to hang a door , using , a chisel , and yankee screw driver .
i worked every summer , and weekend , since i was about 12.
at 15 years old he said " o.k , your gonna hang this door , if you ruin it , you`ll pay for it"
i did ... and i did ,,sounds harsh , but , that's a good way to learn .

did a lot of kitchens , on-site , formica was a big deal then .

used a hand-miter saw to cut moldings
and real finish nails.

install furring strips with cut nails. smashed a few thumbs.
drywall with blue nails ( i think that's what they were called)

i definitely like the new power tools
but i wish young guys all learned all the trades a little , just so when your working on a larger project , you realize , your part of a team , and you have to appreciate who comes after you, and who was there before you ,
allot of guys have blinders on , and just look at their own trade, and don`t think like a team-player
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Old 12-26-2018, 08:22 PM   #26
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I learned the same way I built my own pad - formed, set steel and placed the mud (I don't finish). Framed, roofed, cornice/siding. Didn't hang drywall but have hung thousands of sheets probably including commercial, never finished one though lol.

Set the doors, did the decorative beams, closet cabinet, cased the Windows and ran the base. Our crew Built My cabinets in the shop, or plywood, Blum full extension undermount drawer guides and soft-close hinges. I am not a cabinet builder, always wanted to learn but moved into management before I had time to spend in my brother's shop after you started it. Maybe I'll learn as I go but it'll be awhile. Not really a finish carpenter at all of her than basic trim/casing, most of my time was spent on structural stuff.

The custom builder that I primarily work for before I went into commercial had his own crew, we did everything carpentry related.

I don't paint, I just painted my carport steel after I welded it up, that was the first time I have painted anything and at least 7 years. It looks like it too. LOL. We have two in house painters, sub the rest out.

So I learned old school. Start out with a pick/shovel/broom and go from there.
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Old 12-26-2018, 08:22 PM   #27
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I have been apart of it both ways. When it's under my business I would rather let subs do what they do and get to the next one.
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:25 AM   #28
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


i do my own drywall finishing ( dad never did )
on small jobs anyway
hey!
water level?
how bout using a block- plane ?
hand-sanding
coping?
drilling holes i cement without a hammer-drill

my dad was one of these " show up in button shirt , and uniform pants" guys

all his hand tools were craftsman ( that was the chitt back then! )
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:23 AM   #29
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


Quote:
Originally Posted by woodspike View Post
i`m 60 this december 31`st

my dad taught me to hang a door , using , a chisel , and yankee screw driver .
i worked every summer , and weekend , since i was about 12.
at 15 years old he said " o.k , your gonna hang this door , if you ruin it , you`ll pay for it"
i did ... and i did ,,sounds harsh , but , that's a good way to learn .

did a lot of kitchens , on-site , formica was a big deal then .

used a hand-miter saw to cut moldings
and real finish nails.

install furring strips with cut nails. smashed a few thumbs.
drywall with blue nails ( i think that's what they were called)

i definitely like the new power tools
but i wish young guys all learned all the trades a little , just so when your working on a larger project , you realize , your part of a team , and you have to appreciate who comes after you, and who was there before you ,
allot of guys have blinders on , and just look at their own trade, and don`t think like a team-player
My grandfather considered a man to be a carpenter when he could hand cut a roof, build stairs, and hang old school windows and doors. And I don't mean off the shelf units.

I still have the mortiser and the hinge plate set for setting up door slabs.

I never hung an old school window, but I saw the old men do it when I was a kid. The lumber yard delivered the window "panels" ( I don't know what they are technically called), and the carpenter would case the opening and install the stops and the stool. The ones I remember didn't have sash weights.....I am not that old...but they had "spring rods(?)" on either side, and the top window panel was fixed and caulked or nailed in after predrilling.

No screws like we use now until the 80s.

We have really seen a revolution is materials, tools, and skills.
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:30 AM   #30
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
It depends on how fast you are at what quality level, as well as what the nature of the project is. This isn't a gimmee for all situations.
The only challenge with specialization in construction is scheduling and project management. More trades to look after, communication breakdowns etc.

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Old 12-27-2018, 11:29 AM   #31
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


Turned 68 the twenty first of this month. So yes,I remember doing just about everything from excavation on up. Built 2 spec. homes with a buddy of mine (just a handful of months younger) a few years back. They were side by side,the first one we hired a roofer,he caused so much disruption that we roofed the second ourselves. The only subs were electrical and heating. We even did the landscaping ourselves. Subs can be a wonderful thing and when they are not .....they are not.
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:32 AM   #32
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_dj1 View Post
When I started in the trade in '77 being able to do almost anything was what made you a well rounded carpenter. Today everyone wants to specialize. I see "kids" that claim to be carpenters but have no clue how to layout and cut a rafter, or even make a decent sawhorse for petes sake.
It's very frustrating in this day and age to not be able to find anyone that wants to hone their skill or expand on what they do.
Anybody seen batter boards used lately?
Batter boards are used on every one of my projects, and pretty much every good contractors projects I see here.

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Old 12-27-2018, 12:49 PM   #33
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Batter boards are used on every one of my projects, and pretty much every good contractors projects I see here.

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That is the truth John ! If I don't see a contractor using them,I pretty much know the job is off to a shaky start from the get go !
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:27 PM   #34
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Batter boards are used on every one of my projects, and pretty much every good contractors projects I see here.

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Never seen a foundation guy use them up here, they still usually come out pretty good but not always. Itís up to the framer to square the house, it really sucks when you have to hang the floor a couple inches over the edge of the foundation.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:29 PM   #35
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Never seen a foundation guy use them up here, they still usually come out pretty good but not always. Itís up to the framer to square the house, it really sucks when you have to hang the floor a couple inches over the edge of the foundation.
That's f****** crazy. LOL.

We always check the pipes are in the walls and the foundation is square and correct to plan before the pour. In house or subbed. I've had a concrete guy put the slab 5 and 1/2 in too big because of the rock pocket or put the rock pocket at the beginning of the edge of the house, subtracting 5 and 1/2 in. Even with a plumbing plan given to the plumber showing the walls locations and the distance from the forms to the pipes the pipes are usually still off every now and then. Pisses me off

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Old 12-27-2018, 05:35 PM   #36
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I mean how can you **** this up??? Lol

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Old 12-28-2018, 08:07 PM   #37
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Never seen a foundation guy use them up here, they still usually come out pretty good but not always. Itís up to the framer to square the house, it really sucks when you have to hang the floor a couple inches over the edge of the foundation.
Seriously, how to you layout a foundation without batter boards?

Never seen a laser bright enough to do it.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:15 PM   #38
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


I think one of the biggest differences between now and fifty or so years ago, is the shear complexity of the systems we're installing.

Someone was asking me the other day about California's latest requirement for low-flow shower heads.

I think it's gone down from the old standby of 2.2 GPM, to maybe 1.5? And I think it changed in the beginning of 2018? And they wanted to know how California was different from the National Standard. Can't remember.

I've got so many Codes and Standards and Manufacturers Required Installation Methods banging around in my head like a bunch of cue balls in a suitcase. But I can't possibly have them all. And someone who specializes in one or two trades is going to have the ever-growing body of Regulations at their fingertips, that apply to their trade, so they are going to be better and faster than a guy who does it all.

And these days, it's all about the money. Craftsmanship, or a healthy community, or love of a trade for it's own sake, is way down on the list.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:19 PM   #39
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Re: So How Was It In The "old" Days?


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Seriously, how to you layout a foundation without batter boards?

Never seen a laser bright enough to do it.
They just do it. They lay out the 2x6 forms and go to town. If you mentioned batter board they’d tell you those are for homeowners or people who don’t know what they’re doing. I’ve never worked on a footing crew. Remember our footings are typically 8-9’ underground.

Ive watched a foundation crew set and pour footings, take lunch, strip footing forms and set all the wall forms for a 2000+ square foot home with 3-stall garage in one day.

Last edited by Big Johnson; 12-28-2018 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:22 PM   #40
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They just do it. They lay out the 2x6 forms and go to town. If you mentioned batter board theyíd tell you those are for homeowners or people who donít know what theyíre doing. Iíve never worked on a footing crew. Remember our footings are typically 8-9í underground.

Ive watched a foundation crew set and pour footings, take lunch and set all the wall forms for a 2000+ square foot home with 3-stall garage in one day.
What about the stemwall?

Do they stringline it at all, or just.....I don't know...Eyeball it?

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