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Old 05-20-2015, 11:30 AM   #81
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
I have a couple of great subs but they will absolutely not give a price without seeing the job. Non of us on here would either though so I don't blame them. It's im possible to be an expert in every trade so the time it takes to get them over to look is well work it as theirs no surprises for any of us.

I looked at a job a couple days ago. It was an addition to make kitchen bigger. It took 3hrs to just go over what can and can't be done. I didn't even get into what's going on the kitchen and what's being done with electrical plumbing and roof, septic, drain feud etc etc I'm estimating I'm gonna have at least 20-25hrs in pricing this job and running around before I even give a price.
You are obviously doing it all wrong.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:55 AM   #82
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
You are obviously doing it all wrong.

I know for sure I'm not the quickest when pricing stuff but I'm about as anal as it gets. It's rare I forget anything and have never had to do a change order due to something I missed. I also end up with hardly any waste on most jobs compared to what I see other guys waste doing same stuff. I could def do it way quicker but I know I will miss something.
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:08 PM   #83
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


The only person I know that does estimates while sitting in his truck hasn't a clue what he doing, he's a hack.

On larger remodel jobs he comes up with bogus extra charges in an attempt to make up for his losses.

I can't imagine using a price list on a remodeling job. Every job is different, all the materials are different. If I ever got a job where my estimate was based on a price list I better have a large stack of change orders.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:53 PM   #84
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


I spend more time planning, designing and planning a project than it takes to ever do a project.

By project I mean a kitchen, bath, basement not a door hang or crown install. Not that those are not worthy money makers but I wanted to clarify my definition of project.

By the time it is the first day of demo 98% percent of everything is planned for, decided for, signed off on, ordered and or in the warehouse waiting to be picked up.

I do like KAP's process in that there could be more efficiency to the process involved with the homeowners.

I say that because I have a signed design agreement for an entire home remodel in a very nice part of town. Basically been given the keys to run the ship as the owner is out of the country. Of which I have had every one of my subs, designers and vendors on site for. I have a master plan which turns a lot of wasted space into an awesome master bedroom suite along with three design options for the kitchen, master bath and hall full bath.

My point is this, I know what the home is worth and what it can be worth. Putting together these designs has been a fun change up because it's nice to not have the homeowner have to look at every single tile board, faucet, vanity door, cook top etc.

They will be in town in a couple of weeks, point at option A, B, or C and within moments I will have a complete cost proposal for them because I have already obtained numbers for everything.

Now this project is an exception to the rule because most of the time it takes several meetings WITH the homeowners, over the course of weeks to nail down the final answer, Regis.

Usually that is ok because while I am working on project A, project B, C, D, E, etc are being developed in the background with firm design agreements and retainage.

So I'm not worried about the homeowner being on the market or off the market at that point because I have yet to have anyone not build out with me once the design phase is complete and the cost proposal is provided.

Yet, KAP's process interests me because of one thing. There is a niche market in my area that doesn't require the hand holding nor have the budget to warrant the time spent in the upfront phase.

I am not talking about cutting corners or giving them less workmanship quality or attention...it's just there simply are a fair amount of homeowners that don't really care what they shower, bathe, wash dishes in or what stove they heat soup on.

Kap's price list reminded me of something that I thought of a while back but kinda forgot about - in that there could be options for Bath A, B and C and Kitchen A, B or C each with a slightly different price point because of product not necessarily labor - presented to that certain homeowner. But to do that, develop that, nail it down to concise numbers takes time to do so. Then you must have all of those options with you to drag into the homeowners home. To show them option A, B or C. Which is a lot of work and I am either lazy or for some reason don't think it's important enough to develop more, or both.

I appreciate Kap's method and think it works great for him and his company but I just can't see it at the level I am now ( and no offense KAP).

Maybe I know intuitively that to gravitate more towards Kap's methods I need a whole lot more infrastructure in place with efficient systems and people in place to perform those systems to the letter.

In summation I appreciate this thread and everyone that has provided their input. It has clicked on a thought process that has an interesting outcome when it's complete (or at the next waypoint). It's come at a very appropriate time as I have been thinking about the vision statement for my company over the past few weeks.

Thanks guys!

Last edited by Creter; 05-20-2015 at 01:58 PM. Reason: removed an extra word
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:06 PM   #85
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
You are obviously doing it all wrong.
Why would you say something like that?

It's not all wrong, it's another way... if you don't want to learn how to do it or develop a price list when I offered to help you do so, so be it, but I've never intimated anyone is doing it all wrong... only talking about another way we've benefited from... IOW... I've been where you are at... I now spend almost half the time as others giving the customer what they want... you don't want to do it, that's OK...

But TNT... I am TELLING you it can be done, not in theory, but because we do it, nationals do it, and others have posted they've had deals taken from them from companies who do it... you don't believe them either?...

Our company is not unique in this manner... we do full custom... customers aren't limited on anything... they get what they want... but you can also work AGAINST yourself overwhelming them with choices... part of the process is honing in on what they really want and it starts in pre-qualifying...

But as I said in my first detailed response in post #35...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
There are of course limits.... A full-scale remodel would be hard to close on the first night, but most trades a pricing list is a no-brainer... it's just filling in the data...

But whatever works for you and your company is what's most important...

.

Last edited by KAP; 05-20-2015 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:20 PM   #86
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Why would you say something like that?

It's not all wrong, it's another way... if you don't want to learn how to do it or develop a price list when I offered to help you do so, so be it, but I've never intimated anyone is doing it all wrong... only talking about another way we've benefited from...

TNT... I am TELLING you it can be done, not in theory, but because we do it, nationals do it, and others have posted they've had deals taken from them from companies who do it... you don't believe them either?...

Our company is not unique in this manner... we do full custom... customers aren't limited on anything... they get what they want... but you can also work AGAINST yourself overwhelming them with choices... part of the process is honing in on what they really want and it starts in pre-qualifying...

But as I said in my first detailed response in post #35...



So again do you have the materials I posted in your price list? If not then your not doing custom your doing cookie cutter like bath fitter better baths and re bath.

For your system to work you have you would have to have every product made and every price for that product that's made of the market. That's millions upon millions of prices let along the prices to install said products and the time to install. That's why people are calling you out is because it would be impossible to have.

You have said nothing about how this system of yours works other than you have a pricing system. Why are you so worried about giving us information about this system if all these other company's are also doing it.

We are not your competition. If this system of yours can do all this in just a hr or two then I would be selling it to every contractor on the planet.
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:41 PM   #87
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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So again do you have the materials I posted in your price list? If not then your not doing custom your doing cookie cutter like bath fitter better baths and re bath.
No, you are simply wrong about that assumption... if a customer is spec'ing a particlular product, they already know what they want...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
For your system to work you have you would have to have every product made and every price for that product that's made of the market. That's millions upon millions of prices let along the prices to install said products and the time to install. That's why people are calling you out is because it would be impossible to have.
You can "call me out" all you want... our customers get exactly what they want... the only thing that limits what they want is their budget...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
You have said nothing about how this system of yours works other than you have a pricing system. Why are you so worried about giving us information about this system if all these other company's are also doing it.

We are not your competition. If this system of yours can do all this in just a hr or two then I would be selling it to every contractor on the planet.
I think you missed the point there BCC... my price list wouldn't apply to your price list... you don't do things the way we do... you gather quotes from everyone for electrical, plumbing, tiling, cabinets, etc... We ALREADY HAVE that stuff in place and incorporated into our pricing and also are the ones doing the work... and that could very well be the reason why you are having a hard time comprehending this...

If you want a break down of our sales process, it's quite comprehensive, and I think you need to remember that we don't close them all the first night... we average 33-42% on the first night...

A question I would have for everyone is NO-ONE in the history of CT has ever sold a job on the first night? Really?

.

Last edited by KAP; 05-20-2015 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:42 PM   #88
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Originally Posted by cedarboarder View Post
A lot of people dont respond back to my quotes. Price shopping, just wanted a number, or sticker shock?
Any thoughts?
If it's in person or on the phone it could be they are hoping you fill the silence with something they can use. The silence is supposed to raise the tension on you.

I just fall silent also until they break the silence but by now I have already decided I don't want to work for these people. I may hang around to learn something so the time I spent is not a total waste.
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:04 PM   #89
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Why would you say something like that?

It's not all wrong, it's another way... if you don't want to learn how to do it or develop a price list when I offered to help you do so, so be it, but I've never intimated anyone is doing it all wrong... only talking about another way we've benefited from... IOW... I've been where you are at... I now spend almost half the time as others giving the customer what they want... you don't want to do it, that's OK...

But TNT... I am TELLING you it can be done, not in theory, but because we do it, nationals do it, and others have posted they've had deals taken from them from companies who do it... you don't believe them either?...

Our company is not unique in this manner... we do full custom... customers aren't limited on anything... they get what they want... but you can also work AGAINST yourself overwhelming them with choices... part of the process is honing in on what they really want and it starts in pre-qualifying...

But as I said in my first detailed response in post #35...


You stated your way was better.

You cannot offer what I offer same day. An insert tub for instance can range from $400-$2000. Tile can range from $.99 a sq to $9.99 a sq.

I'm not a national company. And the others said the operations that did that were bigger or hacks.

Like I said. Show me your list and I might but it. Take your prices out. There are just too many variables to consider to price on the initial visit. I would wager that the price you gave on the ones you closed the same day was not the same number at the end of the project.
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:07 PM   #90
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


Well my line of work doesn't count towards this convo but I sold a job yesterday within 40 minutes of first contact.

Measured the roof satellite, emailed quote, got signed copy back. I'm surprised.
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:14 PM   #91
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


Kap this is my point. If a customer wants a product and they know what they want do you have the price lists for these products and install.

Ok answer these questions as I'm curious of how your calculating your time to get these jobs.

1. Has customer already picked out tile, cabinets, paint, counters, appliances, lighting etc etc

2. If not then do you take a bunch of samples in the way of tile, counters, cabinet door samples, paint samples etc etc and only sell what you have in your price lists.

3. Is so then what do you do when they want stuff that's not in your price lists that you have never installed or used before.
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:21 PM   #92
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
Kap this is my point. If a customer wants a product and they know what they want do you have the price lists for these products and install.

Ok answer these questions as I'm curious of how your calculating your time to get these jobs.

1. Has customer already picked out tile, cabinets, paint, counters, appliances, lighting etc etc

2. If not then do you take a bunch of samples in the way of tile, counters, cabinet door samples, paint samples etc etc and only sell what you have in your price lists.

3. Is so then what do you do when they want stuff that's not in your price lists that you have never installed or used before.
I think he's just using allowances.
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:25 PM   #93
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Originally Posted by BamBamm5144 View Post
I do 3-6 proposals a day. Each one takes less than hour from initial meeting, to putting the price together, to going over the scope of work.

I hear back from about 30-35% even after following up.
Out of the 30-35%, how many are sold?
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:08 PM   #94
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Out of the 30-35%, how many are sold?
Those would be my closing percentages. Most people never call back if they aren't going to hire us. Maybe one to two people a month will actually let me know they aren't going with us.
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:28 PM   #95
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Kap this is my point. If a customer wants a product and they know what they want do you have the price lists for these products and install.

Ok answer these questions as I'm curious of how your calculating your time to get these jobs.

1. Has customer already picked out tile, cabinets, paint, counters, appliances, lighting etc etc
Depends on the client, but in pre-quaifying the customer, (let's stick with kitchen since that's been the theme) we ask questions before we even go out so we know the direction it's going... I'm not going to bring in all the sample doors, as one example, and play the guessing game of which species if they say they are interested in maple or cherry... we pack the most popular stuff but let them know they are not limited in their final decision. we hone in on what it is they are looking for... Raised panel, flat panel, mitered, tenon, species, finish, etc. While I am measuring, they are looking at not only the samples of the things they expressed interest in prior to and during the meeting but flipping through the book looking at different styles of cabinet. We go back a week later to review the computerized drawings (hand drawn at the meeting), collect another draw, and finalize details. As we all know, contract or none they like to change their mind every now and then...

Allowances are there for things that don't need to be decided on that day, which have no need to delay things, but the cost is built into the contract price... such as knobs/pulls as an example but are far and few between but are accounted for.

Take the current kitchen... she wasn't sure she was going to do recessed lights? OK... so we don't include it... it's certainly no reason to STOP the process from moving forward. If she didn't end up getting them or did, it's STILL another trip back to RE-DO what you could have just done in the first place. If she did get it, it's in the original, and if she didn't, it's not and knows it's not in the scope and requires a Change Order because... she's changing the order from we were contracted for...

Another example is we charge for the paint, but the color doesn't have to be decided that day, in fact I tell them to wait on that purposely. Etc... While we are finalizing minutiae, the process is moving forward... materials are being ordered, install dates scheduled... putting all that off because they haven't selected THE tile, or the paint color or knobs/pulls just makes it a longer process for everyone...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
2. If not then do you take a bunch of samples in the way of tile, counters, cabinet door samples, paint samples etc etc and only sell what you have in your price lists.
The samples are for the major items... we don't sell appliances so all we are interested is dimensions for them... That is easily determined that day...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
3. Is so then what do you do when they want stuff that's not in your price lists that you have never installed or used before.
Same as everyone else... estimate the install time, add a buffer and if it's a product like a specialty sink, break out the laptop and look up pricing to get a determination for pricing to add to the quote... I just don't go back to the office THEN look it up to add it to the quote to go back out for ANOTHER appointment...
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:14 PM   #96
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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I'm estimating I'm gonna have at least 20-25hrs in pricing this job and running around before I even give a price.
I can't imagine doing 20-25 hours worth of work without a signed contract. It is inconceivable to me.

You've got to be paid for that time, so if you close 33.33%, you have to put 45 hours, the time you spent on the last two jobs you estimated and didn't get, into the one you closed. How can you compete or make a profit?
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:19 PM   #97
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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I can't imagine doing 20-25 hours worth of work without a signed contract. It is inconceivable to me.

You've got to be paid for that time, so if you close 33.33%, you have to put 45 hours, the time you spent on the last two jobs you estimated and didn't get, into the one you closed. How can you compete or make a profit?
Only 25 hours, Ted would take 40.
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:57 AM   #98
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


This is a very interesting thread. I'm curious KAP, do you know how your pricing compares to your competition?
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:37 AM   #99
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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I can't imagine doing 20-25 hours worth of work without a signed contract. It is inconceivable to me.



You've got to be paid for that time, so if you close 33.33%, you have to put 45 hours, the time you spent on the last two jobs you estimated and didn't get, into the one you closed. How can you compete or make a profit?

Well that's time easy spent on a job this size.

There's a lot go into it when I price stuff. There's the meetings with different trades on the job, the running about figuring crap out, sketch up drawings, putting together a quote etc etc

I won't see a penny for Prob 20+hrs work but I get 95% of jobs I price. It would be 100% if I stopped pricing jobs I know 100% they ain't gonna pay my price but I have a mate who gives me a bunch of referrals and I don't wanna make him feel bad by saying no as you also has future worked lined up with these same people.
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:17 AM   #100
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Re: Silence After Giving Quotes.


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Originally Posted by BamBamm5144 View Post
Well my line of work doesn't count towards this convo but I sold a job yesterday within 40 minutes of first contact.

Measured the roof satellite, emailed quote, got signed copy back. I'm surprised.
I find for roofing this is a great way to increase sales. If I go to look at the roof, and both husband and wife are there, I will try to sell the job using a one call close. I even bought a mobile printer to give them a more professional quote, instead of it being handwritten.

I can try to alleviate concerns while I am there and get a better gauge of if they are tire kickers or not.

Other bids I will email if I am in a hurry and do not have time to write it up in my truck. Oftentimes i don't hear back which is frustrating after a courtesy call and follow up emails.

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