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Question Of Ethics.

 
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:21 PM   #21
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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..?..
Tom what the heck are you doing in an ethics thread?
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:56 PM   #22
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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Originally Posted by TaylorMadeCon View Post
I'm really curious what this mystery product is now
I'll bet a quarter it's Ikea cabinets.
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:57 PM   #23
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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Tom what the heck are you doing in an ethics thread?
He got lost but didn't want to ask for directions.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:28 AM   #24
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


In the 80's, I built a house for a couple who were easy to work with because they had everything picked out by the time the slab was poured. The only issue I had was that they had selected what was clearly a wall tile (4") that they wanted used on a bathroom floor. I told them that they needed to pick something else as their selection was not appropriate for a flooring application. They were absolutely insistent that it would be OK. When several tiles cracked in the first year, they didn't remember me recommendations. I ate that one but swore never again.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:33 AM   #25
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
lota times i educate myself right out of a job..
That's funny.

I think I have had customers (well they didn't end up being customers), I mean prospects, that just would not listen to a word I said. They were so hell bent on not being sold a bill of goods that they would barely accept a word I said.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:56 AM   #26
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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That's funny.

I think I have had customers (well they didn't end up being customers), I mean prospects, that just would not listen to a word I said. They were so hell bent on not being sold a bill of goods that they would barely accept a word I said.
Some people don't have an ounce of trust in them. I did a project for a couple where the wife examined my every word, to find my secret angle. She made several bad decisions about the project that were clearly meant to show that I wasn't fooling them, no sir.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:05 AM   #27
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


Just say I'm not a big fan of that product. But if that's what you want I'll put it up.

Word it in your proposal ''As per owners selection''. Or ''Product/Material provided by owner''.

Some others may offer up they're twist on wording.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:06 AM   #28
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


There are many products I outright refuse to touch. I'm not doing a flat rate job with products that I know will be a pain in the ass.
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:25 AM   #29
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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..?..

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Old 01-14-2015, 12:55 PM   #30
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


I wouldn't install a product that had known to not work for what ever reason. An example from me would be roof coatings, say a customer wants their roof coated to stop leaks, its a ponding mess of a 20 year old EPDM roof, but they saw somewhere that installing a coating gives them a "new" roof and solves all of their problems.

So after explaining to them why said product will not work and suggesting what product would live up to their expectations there is really nothing more to do, if they they use your ideas good if not move on to the next one.

I sure wouldn't install a product knowing it will not live up to it's claims because after all you will still be the guy they complain about who installed an inferior product and knew it was an inferior product.

While stating in a contract that this product will not work as intended, it won't help the word of mouth if/when it does fail. That is unless you state in your contract that they can not bad mouth you/your company.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:05 PM   #31
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


I install a product all the time that I know is subpar, the manufacturer knows that it's subpar, and the original designers knew it was subpar, yet it is still the industry standard. What's more, in the name of environmental responsibility(so they say) and ease of use(so they say again) the manufacturers are making said product worse and worse all the time. Why has this become the status quo? Money, money, money. The end user wants it done cheaper, the manufacturers want to make more money, and somewhere there will always be someone who will supply and install it cheaper. If you didn't guess, I'm talking about drywall. However the same goes for so many of the products and materials that go into construction. Not so long ago people would have laughed at you if you told them you were going to build their cabinets out of glue and dust, side their houses out of wood chips and glue, or build furniture out of cardboard. Technology is not always a good thing nor does it lead to better products.

That being said, bravo to anyone who refuses to sacrifice their standards or values for money, work or simply the old "that's the way the Jones's are doing it" mentality.

Last edited by mnld; 01-14-2015 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 01-14-2015, 04:24 PM   #32
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


When I run into a situation where a HO has decided on a product that I think is inferior, I will try to educate and steer them to a better product. However, there are some products that I flat out refuse to use/install. It's MY name on the job. They WONT remember who manufactured the product, but they WILL remember who installed it, and they WONT remember you telling them it was crap, even if you put it in writing. I've lost jobs by having this attitude, but I think it works out for the good in the long run. I hear HO's complaining all the time about how something they had done a few short years ago looks like crap now. And usually in the same breath they're wanting a discount/cheaper materials
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:02 PM   #33
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


+1 They always seem to remember who installed it.
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:59 AM   #34
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


[QUOTE=red_cedar;2268730]I suppose this is one for the lawyers or those who been down that road, but can a bad material come back to you that was installed 15 + years later?



Absolutely !Anyone among us old enough to remember the fiasco surrounding the pronounced failure of fire retardant plywood used on roof decks ?

Some contractors were hauled into court even though they were just following the specs. laid out in the bid documents and mandated by the governing municipality .
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:55 PM   #35
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


Tins is right. As long as you have educated them and is not dangerous, price accordingly.

I also agree with Inner. If it's going to be a PITA I would not have an issue with turning the job down.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:55 PM   #36
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


It doesn't need to be a big moral question. Don't sell or install things that pose a risk to human health or safety, to the basic soundness of a building, to your reputation, or to your business; yes, the reputation bucket is a big one. Within those bounds, inform the customer (in writing, depending on the value/exposure of the item) about the tradeoffs and the limitations of your warranty or support, and offer the price that works for you.

When they make their decision, in either case you can work with a clear conscience and a pleasant smile on your face. If you can't bring yourself to do it, then politely decline the job and step aside for the next guy.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:01 PM   #37
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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It doesn't need to be a big moral question. Don't sell or install things that pose a risk to human health or safety, to the basic soundness of a building, to your reputation, or to your business; yes, the reputation bucket is a big one. Within those bounds, inform the customer (in writing, depending on the value/exposure of the item) about the tradeoffs and the limitations of your warranty or support, and offer the price that works for you.

When they make their decision, in either case you can work with a clear conscience and a pleasant smile on your face. If you can't bring yourself to do it, then politely decline the job and step aside for the next guy.
#1 answer to this question imo
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Old 01-16-2015, 12:13 AM   #38
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


That product for me is any variation of residential click/glue or floating glueless vinyl plank flooring, flooring stores here are shoving it down homeowners throats and I haven't seen anyone happy with it
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Old 01-25-2015, 06:42 PM   #39
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


How about a city that specified a product that they wanted. Most per capita income around... 1 million dollars. I told them after doing research no. I could not stand behind it. Does not hold up under freeze /thaw conditions. They had a gypsy contractor do it anyway. Not only there but all over our metro area. It blew up everywhere within 2 years.... Smh
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Old 01-25-2015, 07:51 PM   #40
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Re: Question Of Ethics.


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How about a city that specified a product that they wanted. Most per capita income around... 1 million dollars. I told them after doing research no. I could not stand behind it. Does not hold up under freeze /thaw conditions. They had a gypsy contractor do it anyway. Not only there but all over our metro area. It blew up everywhere within 2 years.... Smh
sounds like they put a west coast tile in the wrong area of the county. MO. Worst freeze thaw area in the country

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big moral question
Not a big moral question. Just thinking about it.
Decided going to give people what they want, inform of my knowledge of the product. If they want it we will provide it providing it does not harm anyone.

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