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Old 10-30-2014, 08:05 PM   #21
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Re: Per Diem


Side note on my post: We did always get put up in IHG hotels, i.e. Holiday Inns and Expresses, Crowne Plazas, never any flea bag motels. They always had good breakfasts, but that still didn't make up for no per diem.

$15 is quite low. $30 is what I would consider for todays prices. Most traveling contractors I know get paid from 35-75$ a day per diem. Making them eat the dollar menu bfast/lunch/dinner is not a show of gratitude.

Small company or not, BID your jobs to include adequate compensation for the ones helping earn YOUR living.
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:25 PM   #22
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Re: Per Diem


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Originally Posted by terilynne3 View Post
we are such a small company that we couldn't compete with larger ones paying more. We did agree to up the food, removed the mileage and replaced with with wages for driver only for jobs over 60 miles from home office.
Why does the size of your company have anything to do with paying your employees what they deserve for doing a job for you?

You really need to check the laws, I am pretty sure that drivers and passengers must be compensated for their time traveling.

"Travel Away from Home Community: Travel that keeps an employee away from home overnight is travel away from home. Travel away from home is clearly work time when it cuts across the employee's workday. The time is not only hours worked on regular working days during normal working hours but also during corresponding hours on nonworking days. As an enforcement policy the Division will not consider as work time that time spent in travel away from home outside of regular working hours as a passenger on an airplane, train, boat, bus, or automobile."


Here is a link: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.htm
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Old 10-31-2014, 06:34 AM   #23
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Re: Per Diem


federal mileage is .55 cents per mile....i didnt think you could legally pay whatever you want for mileage reimbursement...i thought you had to pay .55

food should be $30+
hotel?...all depends on the area...$75 may work, it may not

paying .15 per mile is a sign of an extreme cheap skate....it would scare me off
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:14 AM   #24
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Re: Per Diem


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federal mileage is .55 cents per mile....i didnt think you could legally pay whatever you want for mileage reimbursement...i thought you had to pay .55

food should be $30+
hotel?...all depends on the area...$75 may work, it may not

paying .15 per mile is a sign of an extreme cheap skate....it would scare me off
You legally don't have to pay anything. The rate is put out by the IRS for tax purposes.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:22 AM   #25
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Re: Per Diem


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myself and 2 other coworkers were greatly under appreciated.
That's why I always tell people not happy with their current job to leave, go, bye cya. People need to be where they are happy, and also be where they feel they are fairly compensated for their work.

If owner/boss is a piece of fecal matter, cheap, etc. then in the end he'll have high turnover, lots of in/out illegals, those that stay dead enders/drunks, loss of tools/materials, junk/worn out tools, their work will suffer and that be reflected in the jobs they get and the pay they can do. It's a downward cycle that I always like to see.

They can only burn through so many people before they crash or move....or slowly decay away....
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:39 AM   #26
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Re: Per Diem


Worked for one company as a lone wolf, doing the repairs/estimating/specialized stuff, sometimes helping some of his crews, etc. so I drove my own truck. Didn't mind it as I didn't have to go to the shop, used my own tools, etc. As he wasn't paying me for mileage (gas), I was a little flexible on my hours, usually plus/minus a half our at the beginning and end of day.

Some of his crew were jealous or something as suddenly he started to want me to be firm in my hours. So I mentioned I'd keep track of my mileage and he'd have to reimburse me for them and also, if I went to look at a job for him, mileage there and back....plus my time to the shop *.

He balked at that, not wanting to. But he didn't have another vehicle for me to drive and I couldn't do all of what just meeting at the shop and leaving with his crews in one of their vehicles. It was funny because he was caught between his cheapness vs. business needs, going from friend to friend, partner to partner, trying to figure out how to make not paying me work.
Didn't. I moved on and they're still struggling to this very day trying to make a buck.....

*some businesses have you meet at the shop at say 7am, but don't pay you until 8 am. Others won't pay you if the job is w/in 45 minutes of the shop, even though you go to the shop first, get in their truck and drive to the job. etc.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:51 AM   #27
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Re: Per Diem


The government has this here website to give you an idea what to pay / charge per diem http://www.gsa.gov/portal/category/100120

If you are booking hotels for your guys be sure to charge for being a travel agent. You're better off just giving your workers per diem like $125 / day and they can do what they want at the end of the day, choose how to use their per Diem money as they wish.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:56 AM   #28
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Re: Per Diem


Your area is your problem. That has to be one of the worst parts of TN from an economical standpoint.

Where you're at a single guy with no car payment can rent a decent apartment, eat, pay utilities, and save some all while making 12-14 an hour.

That being said it's a dead end down there. Move your company to Franklin/Brentwood where there is money to be made.
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:50 AM   #29
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Re: Per Diem


Quote:
Originally Posted by huggytree View Post
federal mileage is .55 cents per mile....i didnt think you could legally pay whatever you want for mileage reimbursement...i thought you had to pay .55

food should be $30+
hotel?...all depends on the area...$75 may work, it may not

paying .15 per mile is a sign of an extreme cheap skate....it would scare me off
30+?

The last time I traveled my food allowance for the day was 80$ from my employer. They also footed the bill for everything else, all travel hotel everything.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:22 PM   #30
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Re: Per Diem


When your employees go out of town, do they drive their own vehicles or do you supply a vehicle for them? My first thought is that 0.15/mile would barely cover gas in my vehicle, and it absolutely doesn't cover gas and maintenance expenses. When I was an employee I made it clear to my boss that if I was to drive my personal vehicle for his jobs that I expected my full hourly wage and $0.55/mile.

As far as $15 for food goes, I can't see a worker getting enough nourishment and energy for a workday out of $15. I've never worked so far out of town that I needed a per diem, but if I did I would have expected between $40-50 a day, on top of a place to sleep.

Is it imperative that you bid jobs that require going on the road? Could you scale back your business so that your husband could do a little more of the hands-on work and pay himself more? Maybe you could learn the sales/estimating aspect of the business in order to free up some of his time.

Do you always go on the road to the same or similar locations? What about trying to set up a network of part time local workers who could eat and sleep and home but complete your out of town projects.
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:21 PM   #31
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Re: Per Diem


If its only 60 miles one way. I would be going home after work.
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:48 PM   #32
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Re: Per Diem


20 years ago when working out of town Id get $40/ day and if you don't drink too much you could make money on the co with that. 2- 3 per room of course...

FWIW most our installers drive anywhere from 60-100 miles each way to jobsites now and no they don't get mileage or travel time. They decided where to live. Most do 30K miles/ year

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Old 10-31-2014, 08:54 PM   #33
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Re: Per Diem


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Originally Posted by MSLiechty
20 years ago when working out of town Id get $40/ day and if you don't drink too much you could make money on the co with that. 2- 3 per room of course... FWIW most our installers drive anywhere from 60-100 miles each way to jobsites now and no they don't get mileage or travel time. They decided where to live. Most do 30K miles/ year ML
So does that mean most of your installers live roughly 60-100 miles from your shop/office/HQ?
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Old 11-02-2014, 12:24 PM   #34
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Re: Per Diem


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If its only 60 miles one way. I would be going home after work.
For me that gets old as instead of being back to the room and showering in 15 minutes, it's an hour there, then shower. An 8 hour work day means a ten hour workday. Done both and driving for 1/4 of my workday got old very fast.
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Old 11-02-2014, 06:45 PM   #35
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Re: Per Diem


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For me that gets old as instead of being back to the room and showering in 15 minutes, it's an hour there, then shower. An 8 hour work day means a ten hour workday. Done both and driving for 1/4 of my workday got old very fast.
That ten hour day is a minimum. Our average commute is 50 miles and 1 hr. Most of the guys I work with are family men with homes. They would never consider overnights, period.
I rather enjoy the commute. Its a good time to make calls, mentally iron out work related issues or just think of happy fluffy clouds.
I think it would cost more for our employer to put us up for the night vs pay for fuel and a 1 hr commute.

Last edited by JAH; 11-02-2014 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:24 PM   #36
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Re: Per Diem


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Why does the size of your company have anything to do with paying your employees what they deserve for doing a job for you?

You really need to check the laws, I am pretty sure that drivers and passengers must be compensated for their time traveling.

"Travel Away from Home Community: Travel that keeps an employee away from home overnight is travel away from home. Travel away from home is clearly work time when it cuts across the employee's workday. The time is not only hours worked on regular working days during normal working hours but also during corresponding hours on nonworking days. As an enforcement policy the Division will not consider as work time that time spent in travel away from home outside of regular working hours as a passenger on an airplane, train, boat, bus, or automobile."


Here is a link: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.htm
I have a friend that travels 3 hrs to work one way 5 days per week and she isn't paid mileage or per diem. We used to pay for hotel but they decided they wanted money so they could stay in cheap one and keep rest. That is their decision. And no, in this area, we couldn't raise the prices and get contracts. $15 an hr is a very good wage for this area. We don't get paid for travel. They can ride with us but choose not to. So, we pulled all of our tools from their possession because they are very hard on them with all the side jobs they do (nail guns and air compressors are very expensive, not to mention generators), took the business phone back and gave them a higher travel per diem. We can't afford extra money for per diem and then replace our stuff as they wear them out doing side jobs. Our company truck, which is our personal vehicle has almost 300k on it, with 140k being put on in the last 20 mos, which is as long as we have had the old truck. So if we don't make money to keep our tools and vehicles runnings, then we don't stay in business. We have tried to branch out and been robbed blind twice by employees who were earning more than double what other contractors around here pay. We can't afford to buy anything else to replace what has been stolen. it is all we can do to keep the stuff running, so I eliminated some of the wear and tear by taking the tools back. Leaving our nail guns in the back of your truck in the rain so you can do side jobs inside and rusting them out....not happening anymore. I just want to eat and have a roof over my head. Not rolling in anything but debt here.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:43 PM   #37
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Re: Per Diem


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When your employees go out of town, do they drive their own vehicles or do you supply a vehicle for them? My first thought is that 0.15/mile would barely cover gas in my vehicle, and it absolutely doesn't cover gas and maintenance expenses. When I was an employee I made it clear to my boss that if I was to drive my personal vehicle for his jobs that I expected my full hourly wage and $0.55/mile.

As far as $15 for food goes, I can't see a worker getting enough nourishment and energy for a workday out of $15. I've never worked so far out of town that I needed a per diem, but if I did I would have expected between $40-50 a day, on top of a place to sleep.

Is it imperative that you bid jobs that require going on the road? Could you scale back your business so that your husband could do a little more of the hands-on work and pay himself more? Maybe you could learn the sales/estimating aspect of the business in order to free up some of his time.

Do you always go on the road to the same or similar locations? What about trying to set up a network of part time local workers who could eat and sleep and home but complete your out of town projects.
We are scaled back. We can barely keep enough work to keep us going. Right now we are ok, but there have been several months in a row without work. I have retyped this several times and keep erasing it because I do not feel I should have to defend myself. You think we are cheap, come and find another contractor in this area that pays as much as us and allows the liberties we do. I know you can't because we always have people wanting us to hire them but we are loyal to our employees even though one is a almost completely disabled and can't work but 6 hrs a day at the most. I guess I could be a cold hearted ass like most of you though and fire him, knowing he won't get hired anywhere else (because we have already done that once and felt horrid and took him back when he asked because he can't work a regular job anymore). He more than earns his money in my eyes and I think, considering his serious infirmities that he is barking up the wrong tree trying to blackmail us into paying him more. We fired him again for it and he came back begging because he knows and of course, I took him back. Because I am a cheap ass, I guess. Maybe a $1.00 pay raise every six months is too much too.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:47 PM   #38
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Re: Per Diem


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Originally Posted by MSLiechty View Post
20 years ago when working out of town Id get $40/ day and if you don't drink too much you could make money on the co with that. 2- 3 per room of course...

FWIW most our installers drive anywhere from 60-100 miles each way to jobsites now and no they don't get mileage or travel time. They decided where to live. Most do 30K miles/ year

ML
do you pay more hourly because they do drive?
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:49 PM   #39
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Re: Per Diem


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For me that gets old as instead of being back to the room and showering in 15 minutes, it's an hour there, then shower. An 8 hour work day means a ten hour workday. Done both and driving for 1/4 of my workday got old very fast.
When gas was higher we used to stay that close to home. but now we can't afford it. Hotels have gone through the roof.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:56 PM   #40
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Re: Per Diem


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When your employees go out of town, do they drive their own vehicles or do you supply a vehicle for them? My first thought is that 0.15/mile would barely cover gas in my vehicle, and it absolutely doesn't cover gas and maintenance expenses. When I was an employee I made it clear to my boss that if I was to drive my personal vehicle for his jobs that I expected my full hourly wage and $0.55/mile.

As far as $15 for food goes, I can't see a worker getting enough nourishment and energy for a workday out of $15. I've never worked so far out of town that I needed a per diem, but if I did I would have expected between $40-50 a day, on top of a place to sleep.

Is it imperative that you bid jobs that require going on the road? Could you scale back your business so that your husband could do a little more of the hands-on work and pay himself more? Maybe you could learn the sales/estimating aspect of the business in order to free up some of his time.

Do you always go on the road to the same or similar locations? What about trying to set up a network of part time local workers who could eat and sleep and home but complete your out of town projects.
We dont' have company vehicles. We drive our own personal vehicle as a company vehicle and insure it as such. Our employees have the option of riding with us, but choose not too. We tried hiring locals, but get nothing but lazy people who don't want to work if it is too hot, or too cold, or don't want to get their shoes muddy, or leave the heavy work to me an old woman while they sit around. We gave up on that. We were paying 12$ hr for locals. Just not worth it. My husband is basically disabled and that is what he does is the estimates and stuff because that is all he can really do. Until the docs figure out what is wrong...he can't work. When my hubby and I are out of town with the crew, we don't spend more than that on food a day. We bring food from home, eat cheap or are too tired too eat. Our employees always bring several loaves of bread, lunch meat and all sorts of stuff. Several coolers worth. He is diabetic so has too. They just want the extra money for beer because he gets drunk every night to cope with his pain.

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