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Need Some Advice

 
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:24 AM   #41
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Re: Need Some Advice


You and the construction manager are supposed to have a piece of the company? One of you has to go. Find your perfect situation.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:28 AM   #42
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Re: Need Some Advice


Do you have some ownership, or just "ownership roles"? Is there a carrot they're dangling?
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:39 AM   #43
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Re: Need Some Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
Do you have some ownership, or just "ownership roles"? Is there a carrot they're dangling?
They're dangling 2 carrots. 5% profit share bonus, plus longer term ownership, it seems.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:44 AM   #44
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Re: Need Some Advice


I'm guessing the desk jockey construction manager isn't working 60 hours a week. I'm also guessing on an hourly basis, she's making about what she made when she started, unless she has been busting butt the whole time.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:47 AM   #45
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Re: Need Some Advice


Yes in my opinion you are underpaid if your in charge in the field. If you were in the office full-time know you probably underpaid, but par for the course. An office manager with a staff should make more

That's basically what I start a new superintendent and training off at, with no real responsibility, a lot of shadowing, supervising small trade work, delivering material, punch list and small equipment operating. They get a company truck and cell too.

How is that relevant to the conversation? No. That's what your boss thinks your worth bud. So either Pony up and find you a new job and tell him to get lost or renegotiate. He doesn't want to renegotiate move on.

By the way, salespeople of any Talent almost always make more money than guys in the field.

I am a fairly skilled Carpenter and Builder, besides the talent and skill-set going into organizing and scheduling projects, my real talent that makes me a lot more money than a guy wearing bags for me or running jobs for me is my ability to estimate and sell consistently at high margins. I don't know a whole lot of people who can do that well. That's why they generally make more money. Supply and demand.

Use Cali Mike as an example, what do you think the difference between him and another really good deck builder is who makes half as much money or less and works more hours? Sales ability

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Last edited by Jaws; 01-30-2019 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:04 PM   #46
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Re: Need Some Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
Do you have some ownership, or just "ownership roles"? Is there a carrot they're dangling?

Just ownership roles. I have felt like they have been dangling carrots for quite some time. Considering they have no children and he’s an ego maniac. His pitch is they worked hard to create a company and want to build a brand and don’t want it to go away when they go. Since me & construction manager are the ones working our butts off to make it happen and have increased production and created efficiencies so they don’t have to hire Human Resources, they offered us the chance to reap the fruits of our labor in the next 5-10 years. Of course this is paying them a nice salary to do nothing but micromanage I’m sure. I get salespeople always make more money but if the volume is increasing significantly and my work load is getting heavier why is the salesperson the only one benefitting? The promise of a 5% bonus on profit after all expenses doesn’t leave much left to commensurate with the amount of work.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:14 PM   #47
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Re: Need Some Advice


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Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
I'm guessing the desk jockey construction manager isn't working 60 hours a week. I'm also guessing on an hourly basis, she's making about what she made when she started, unless she has been busting butt the whole time.
Yep busting butt since I started. After 6 months I went in and said I would like to discuss my salary and how after the hours I was working I was only making about $12 an hour and I thought a bonus at the end of the job would be appropriate. He came unglued and said he couldn’t believe I had the balls to come in after only 6 months and ask for more money. No one asks for more money until at least after a year. I knew this was a salaried position when I started and I was like yea, but I couldn’t foresee the future and what my workload would be. Which was why I didn’t ask for a Salary increase, I asked for a job production bonus. He wasn’t stuck over paying me if the work wasn’t there. Needless to say I didn’t get a raise. He promised me a bonus if I met certain goals (completed project on time, in budget, etc ) he was doing the estimating at the time, so I had no control over the profit. I did find other ways to save money by price shopping vendors and negotiating better pricing. All I got was Christmas bonuses.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:30 PM   #48
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Re: Need Some Advice


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Just ownership roles. I have felt like they have been dangling carrots for quite some time. Considering they have no children and he’s an ego maniac. His pitch is they worked hard to create a company and want to build a brand and don’t want it to go away when they go. Since me & construction manager are the ones working our butts off to make it happen and have increased production and created efficiencies so they don’t have to hire Human Resources, they offered us the chance to reap the fruits of our labor in the next 5-10 years. Of course this is paying them a nice salary to do nothing but micromanage I’m sure. I get salespeople always make more money but if the volume is increasing significantly and my work load is getting heavier why is the salesperson the only one benefitting? The promise of a 5% bonus on profit after all expenses doesn’t leave much left to commensurate with the amount of work.
That's what I thought. Typical stuff. Sounds meaningless unless they laid out a measurable game plan/timetable. Mainly it's to string you along. It's either happening...or it's not.

I have a friend who successfully "improved processes" for three different firms, and it turned into zippo for her own advancement. Once the problems are solved, it's just a new level of status quo.

You have the skills to retain a high level of self-confidence as you figure this out.

Last edited by MarkJames; 01-30-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:36 PM   #49
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Re: Need Some Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueskyyz View Post
Yep busting butt since I started. After 6 months I went in and said I would like to discuss my salary and how after the hours I was working I was only making about $12 an hour and I thought a bonus at the end of the job would be appropriate. He came unglued and said he couldnít believe I had the balls to come in after only 6 months and ask for more money. No one asks for more money until at least after a year. I knew this was a salaried position when I started and I was like yea, but I couldnít foresee the future and what my workload would be. Which was why I didnít ask for a Salary increase, I asked for a job production bonus. He wasnít stuck over paying me if the work wasnít there. Needless to say I didnít get a raise. He promised me a bonus if I met certain goals (completed project on time, in budget, etc ) he was doing the estimating at the time, so I had no control over the profit. I did find other ways to save money by price shopping vendors and negotiating better pricing. All I got was Christmas bonuses.
Sounds like you should have your own show. They aren't going to flip a 180.... BTW, the nice salary they would get paid would be for building the business and putting up the money. The micromanaging is just a bonus lol

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Old 01-30-2019, 12:55 PM   #50
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Re: Need Some Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueskyyz View Post
Just ownership roles. I have felt like they have been dangling carrots for quite some time. they offered us the chance to reap the fruits of our labor in the next 5-10 years. Of course this is paying them a nice salary to do nothing but micromanage I’m sure. The promise of a 5% bonus on profit after all expenses doesn’t leave much left to commensurate with the amount of work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueskyyz View Post
Needless to say I didn’t get a raise. He promised me a bonus if I met certain goals (completed project on time, in budget, etc ) he was doing the estimating at the time, so I had no control over the profit. I did find other ways to save money by price shopping vendors and negotiating better pricing. All I got was Christmas bonuses.
Re-read what you just wrote... from what you've posted, you'd be a great asset at a company that appreciated your skillset...

Putting aside you went from $38K to $53K in 5 years... "Ownership roles" that are not tied to actual ownership (shares, percentage) are meaningless and they can do what they appeared to have done since you started... made promises, gotten the benefit of your labor, and not deliver... assuming it's all accurate, you telling us their track record...

On going forward, I guess you'd have to weigh their actual track record of the last five years against their potential track record for the next 5-10 years, and ask yourself if you want to own the company with a partner you don't have alignment with, while paying the former owners, whom you think will arrange it so they can micro-manage you...

Doing a Ben Franklin, you have relationships with subs/vendors who trust you, have field experience, have office and management experience, have financial management and forecasting experience, are a women (women owner benefits), etc. and most importantly are looking to own your own company one day...

What's stopping you from owning 100% of your own company now as opposed to being in business with people you don't gel with in the future for a smaller percentage and not true ownership?

If you're not financially ready, you might want to still be putting feelers out for career advancement... based on the limited info we have, it would completely suck if 5-10 years from now, you came on here to say they screwed you...

Sounds like you're at one of those turning points in life... Best of luck in whatever you decide... 8^)

Last edited by KAP; 01-30-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:59 PM   #51
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Re: Need Some Advice


OP, you should go back and read this whole thread including all of your own posts......particularly your own posts. A little bit of the outside looking in to see what you have laid out here.

Have you put yourself in a position where leaving your employment will put you in a bind? It does sound like it. Money may be, as underpaid as you assert, the thing that is keeping you at your job. That irony is not all too uncommon. It sucks to working at a job you feel you cannot afford to leave. The way out is to plan your exit strategy. IOW, buckling down on your current finances and looking at where your future income will be coming from. You seem well enough organized to manage that.

Anyway, my $.02. Best of luck.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:50 PM   #52
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Re: Need Some Advice


A couple of things I tell most people. Use street rules the first 3 street rules are

Get the money up front.
Get the money up front.
Get the money up front.

Beyond that, a raise now is way better for you in the short and long term than a bonus later.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:51 PM   #53
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Re: Need Some Advice


Thanks everyone for your input & advice. I think I’m going to try to muster up enough nerve to ask for more money. If he says no, then I’ll just stick it out till I find something else. If I get the raise, I’m just going to keep building relationships and learn as much as I can so I can go out on my own eventually. I forgot to mention that my husband and I own a trim carpentry business (which I actively worked with him 13 years building this company) not just handing him tools. - I can work a chop saw better than most men. The catch is my husband also does all the trim work and hangs cabinets for this company as well. I’ve been a little scared to leave because I’m afraid they’ll find another trim carpenter too. Which really would leave us in a financial bind. The only reason I even brought my husband onboard was, they needed a trim guy and they really are few and far between around here. Most trim guys throw crap up and leave it for the painters to fix. Talk about all your eggs in one basket 🙄 Anyone else struggle with finding good trim carpenters?
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:42 AM   #54
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Re: Need Some Advice


Now there is a pickle....

Good trim carpenter's can be a little scarce, but there are quite a few that are "good enough".
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Old 02-02-2019, 08:53 PM   #55
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Re: Need Some Advice


Few and far between means they will be less likely to find another. A true businessman will not worry about personal relationships.
Not only trim carpenters, but carpenters in general are hard to find. If I could find a couple, I would push paper instead of pound nails


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