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Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!

 
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:45 PM   #21
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


I hate to hear stories like this. Without government enforcement, construction is doomed to be more and more dominated with the illegals. The U.S. is doomed to fail from failure to use common sense. If I were you, I would relocate. From what I've heard the midwest is overrun with illegal workers. IMO, the construction industry will never recover in my lifetime. Big builders will control any development and the cities they develop in. Smaller GCs and subs will only be around because of these guys if they can work for the Walmart pay. This is my take on new construction…..remodeling completely different opinion.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:53 PM   #22
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamestrd View Post
You learned lesson he hardway...
1... Always follow your gut
2... Never sacrifice your procedure/policy
3.. If someone refuses.. Argues.. Manipulates.. Avoids your requirements see 1 and 2..
4.. When you bid to be lowest til win.. Things are sure to go wrong..

I can go on.. But i want... Money and the need for it makes people do funny things..
We are all guilty.
I am sorry for the hard times you have come across.

I can tell you this.. Be wary of rogue GCs cold calling you of nowhere..
Chances are high that they already screwed someone else an is why they are looking.
Been there done that..

My comments are not against GCs on site or in general.. But the fact remains.

I recently had a GC not wan to give e his address.. I was like.. For real?
I walked..

You will see improvement 2017 as long as you can hold out
Without getting into a pages long debate about race and politics and such, I find it ironic that someone with the surname Hernandez would be sympathetic to the original poster due to the underlying theme of the post?....

However rather than blame the possibly un-documented (never proven) crew for taking over his job the real blame lay at the feet of the GC that supposedly violated the terms of his contract,and as bad as this sounds judging by the grammar the original poster used ,I'm guessing the GC saw an easy target in him (read unsophisticated in business)and took advantage.
I could be wrong, but if the OP submitted a contract with that type of language and grammar, he can wait until 2017 or 2071 whomever the President is won't matter.......it's about personal responsibilty in being in business you have to study and adjust daily to the ever changing climate and most importantly "constantly educate yourself" ,President Obama did'nt cause this and I would'nt " Hold Out
until 2017" waiting for the next POTUS to save me if I were him , not everyone is meant to be a business owner....

Last edited by All-Craft; 01-16-2013 at 12:00 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:43 AM   #23
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Craft View Post

Without getting into a pages long debate about race and politics and such, I find it ironic that someone with the surname Hernandez would be sympathetic to the original poster due to the underlying theme of the post?....

However rather than blame the possibly un-documented (never proven) crew for taking over his job the real blame lay at the feet of the GC that supposedly violated the terms of his contract,and as bad as this sounds judging by the grammar the original poster used ,I'm guessing the GC saw an easy target in him (read unsophisticated in business)and took advantage.
I could be wrong, but if the OP submitted a contract with that type of language and grammar, he can wait until 2017 or 2071 whomever the President is won't matter.......it's about personal responsibilty in being in business you have to study and adjust daily to the ever changing climate and most importantly "constantly educate yourself" ,President Obama did'nt cause this and I would'nt " Hold Out
until 2017" waiting for the next POTUS to save me if I were him , not everyone is meant to be a business owner....
Seems your apostrophes' ARE WAY out of whack!.. And hyphens are not used with prefixes such as UN.

What does my surname have to do with anything?

I am not illegal. I am not Mexican or Peruvian or Panamanian.
I do not undercut pricing in my market and price at the top end of it.
I lose far more than I win

I do not nor did/does my heritage jump borders illegally.
I am American. Born and raised with heritage from Puerto Rico(American)
And Ireland...

The OP's statements and grammar do not disturb me.

There's money out there but much less had by many more..

These times create desperation for many and most think with their checkbooks..
And it has an effect.

I don't see the next 4 years changing much.. But I hope so for all.

(surprised still?)
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:59 AM   #24
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


I really hope you have someone else write out your contracts.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:52 AM   #25
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


I say customer problem too: I have been on several sides of this issue and the variations that occur. The State here has put much pressure on legitimate construction companies to not have independent subs but employees which puts the minimum labor rate around $30-40 plus per hour with OH, etc. You cannot compete with fly-by-nights at $10-15 per hour price wise regardless of where they come from.

I have also been the local carpenter second in on a upstairs finish where the first guy took the downpayment and ran. I had to suffer the HO angst all through that one. If the homeowner had tried to get even a minimum of info on that first guy he would have known he was flaky. I finally told the HO(day4, rant 12 about his $800) that I lived in the same town, had two kids and house like him and was not a flight risk.
I have also worked as an employee for a contractor who lost a job to a low-ball sub contracting contractor. I have worked for another builder who only paid you as a sub.
I have had a so-called friend of mine explaining how he had some new contractor by the short and curlies because the contractor had omitted a substantial part of his bid cost in the contract and my friend was going to hold him to that original bid price, even though both parties now knew about the error. Don't you know that the contractor is going to come up with the shortfall somewhere?
I have been dumb enough to bid on a job that was advertised in the local paper when times were really slow in town...the customer cherry picked all the subs based on the lowest prices. Can you imagine the cat fights on that job site as to who does what between the electrician, the plumber, the carpenter when it comes time to hook up the dishwasher and clothes washer??!?
Most of these jobs I was involved in when I was much younger. Some of these jobs I think back and thank God or someone that I didn't actually land the job.. It is too bad that customers frequently make these mistakes.

Lastly I have also had barely literate people hand me an invoice that was so poorly written that I ended the project the next day...so get your spelling and grammar right or the customers that you really want/need are never going to take your bids.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #26
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamestrd View Post
Seems your apostrophes' ARE WAY out of whack!.. And hyphens are not used with prefixes such as UN.

What does my surname have to do with anything?

I am not illegal. I am not Mexican or Peruvian or Panamanian.
I do not undercut pricing in my market and price at the top end of it.
I lose far more than I win

I do not nor did/does my heritage jump borders illegally.
I am American. Born and raised with heritage from Puerto Rico(American)
And Ireland...

The OP's statements and grammar do not disturb me.

There's money out there but much less had by many more..

These times create desperation for many and most think with their checkbooks..
And it has an effect.

I don't see the next 4 years changing much.. But I hope so for all.

(surprised still?)
You just proved my original point, never once did I question your heritage you like him immediatley assumed that hispanic meant illegal Mexican....the hispanic crew did not harm the OP, his GC did...
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #27
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Craft

You just proved my original point, never once did I question your heritage you like him immediatley assumed that hispanic meant illegal Mexican....the hispanic crew did not harm the OP, his GC did...
Something tells me it wasn't the GC either. Perhaps self inflicted wound...
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:06 PM   #28
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Craft View Post

You just proved my original point, never once did I question your heritage you like him immediatley assumed that hispanic meant illegal Mexican....the hispanic crew did not harm the OP, his GC did...
And you assumed i should care because of my last name.. He made it clear his position..
Means nothing to me.. The guy is down on his luck and bitter.. Sounds to me his contract cost was low and still had
It pulled.

If his happens enough and you lose enough work due to this t will get you pissed too..

I m As Americans anyone on site. I see it too.. It is wat it is..
Besides what makes you think all latinos like and side with eachother?
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:56 PM   #29
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamestrd View Post
And you assumed i should care because of my last name.. He made it clear his position..
Means nothing to me.. The guy is down on his luck and bitter.. Sounds to me his contract cost was low and still had
It pulled.

If his happens enough and you lose enough work due to this t will get you pissed too..

I m As Americans anyone on site. I see it too.. It is wat it is..
Besides what makes you think all latinos like and side with eachother?
James,
I had to read those comments twice. After the second time around, I think I got what he was saying. Despite the OP's rant, you went above it and gave some good, helpful comments. You see what he means by the irony of it? You're apparently a class act. Keep it up and have a good day.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:59 AM   #30
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


We do not have the problem of illegals here yet like most of the Country, they are here, just not a lot of them and most has to do with racism. Out of state contractors? Only dealt with one so far and being a talker i managed to strike up conversation with him, turned out he used to be a car salesmen at one time. This guy was very bold and pushy and my gut told me about 5 seconds into talking with him that he was shady. Finding out he was a salesmen just confirmed my gut reaction. We did do business but it was cash up front and just a verbal contract. No way was i going to get hosed by this clown. He brought in workers from Guatemala to replace a roof and skylights. I was hired to wire in the skylights and to help cover my butt i had all my work inspected. I watched them install the sky lights and told this clown they were being installed wrong "no caulking, no ice/water shield, no flashing" but they claimed that is how they are all done. A month later after these guys are gone i get a call that two of the skylights were put in wrong and i was asked to swap them around. Work being slow i agreed, swapped them around as asked. I took pics of what i found, i put down ice/water shield, flashed them and caulked all potential leak area's and took pics again. I sent them a bill and surprisingly i got a check made out to cash that was even for the bank i deal with. I drove right to the bank and cashed it. That winter i get a call that all but two skylights were leaking badly and all the rooms suffered drywall damage. I backed right off and recommended they go with whomever their insurance company wanted to deal with. No way was i getting myself or even fellow local contractors in that mess.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:34 AM   #31
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


O.P.
It is happening everywhere. I feel as a construction worker we are looked at as a second class of people.

When I do work for someone making 80k plus a year and they think I am charging to much because there is someone willing to do it for 15 bucks an hour. Who will never have enough money to get dental work or medical care, own a home, or whatever it is that I desire for my family it really gets me thinking.

Fellow CT posters, education and presentation do matter in the business world, but I certainly think that geography and culture must be taken into account. Our friend wasn't taken out by wording or punctuation, sure it might be said that he was taken out by a lack of wording or punctuation in a contract ? that would be a lesson he just admittedly learned. But a different topic.

I keep having to re-think if my hyphens, punctuation and grammar are correct enough for you all. That is not why I came to CT and it is shameful that I am made to feel that way, I know there to be better people here ( that statement isn't clear ? even as I read it, and I wrote it. It probably has an error, But I dont know how else to say it .) That does not change the fact that I am good at what I do, or deserve a job to be pulled out from under me.

The OP had already begun the job , scheduled for 9 guys to be on-site to do the job, and has been in business for twenty years. Sounds like one hell of a business man to me!.

Thanks to those who were constructive it gives me hope for help when I come with a question, To those who only focused on punctuation and grammar ? You missed the point of CT.

Thanks all, I'll step down now . Good Day
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:12 PM   #32
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


ccappaul:

There is a difference between being a grammar Nazi and making the point that a person's spelling and communication are a fair representation of his professionalism.

Joe
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:15 PM   #33
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Three weeks? Are you sure it wasn't a time issue?
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #34
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


welcome to the global economy which USA as the principal government always has endorsed, in europe they use workers from Poland, never sick, don't complain, no social security issues, in Poland they come from the Ucraine, by the way in Russia they come nowadays from China, the principle is simple: cheaper and better quality for money.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:41 PM   #35
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


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Yea; but didn't thank I had to worry after starting job and contract signing.
I thank all us need to move to mexico; by out an take over everything there, let them have this screwed up, disfunctional country. Then maybe all these political law makers, start appreciating us hard working americans. Quit trying to tax, fine, rip us off all time.
Thats kinda how we obtained the California territory.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:36 PM   #36
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by harrymontana
welcome to the global economy which USA as the principal government always has endorsed, in europe they use workers from Poland, never sick, don't complain, no social security issues, in Poland they come from the Ucraine, by the way in Russia they come nowadays from China, the principle is simple: cheaper and better quality for money.
Very few actually from China, Russian Mexicans come mostly from Tadzhikistan, Kyrgistan and Moldova. They call them gastarbaiters and the attitude is predominantly like if you do physical work/ in construction you are Dumb. Everybody has education and degrees and nobody wants to do any work , that's why my home country is in a ****hole.
But I can kinda tell there is a direction towards the same scenario over here as well.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:29 PM   #37
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


Correct me if I'm wrong here guys...

He said he bid this 2200 sq. ft job at .32 a sq ft. so that comes to $704? and he has help and 3+ day job?

What does he make when the job is done $50?

Like I said correct me if I'm wrong here. Electricians don't do work based on sq footage so maybe I'm wrong here with my calculations?
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:09 AM   #38
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


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Correct me if I'm wrong here guys...

He said he bid this 2200 sq. ft job at .32 a sq ft. so that comes to $704? and he has help and 3+ day job?

What does he make when the job is done $50?

Like I said correct me if I'm wrong here. Electricians don't do work based on sq footage so maybe I'm wrong here with my calculations?
Not to mention he said that takes 3 weeks. I'm really confused on his info.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:26 AM   #39
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


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I hate to hear stories like this. Without government enforcement, construction is doomed to be more and more dominated with the illegals. The U.S. is doomed to fail from failure to use common sense. If I were you, I would relocate. From what I've heard the midwest is overrun with illegal workers. IMO, the construction industry will never recover in my lifetime. Big builders will control any development and the cities they develop in. Smaller GCs and subs will only be around because of these guys if they can work for the Walmart pay. This is my take on new constructionů..remodeling completely different opinion.
I wouldn't be so pesimistic. You just have to carve out your own niche.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:57 PM   #40
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Re: Loosing Clients, Bids, In Area Been Established In For Years!!


To the original poster, you sound like a victim. Not that you shouldn't be mad about what happened, but you can either let it define you and it will bring your business down, or you can adapt. A book that addresses this issue is called "who moved my cheese?" We are not the only business that conditions change in the blink of an eye.

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