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Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???

 
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:31 AM   #41
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
The law is written to protect the public against unlicensed contractors.

Here if a person is caught working unlicensed the homeowner/builder will recieve a bigger fine than that of the person that was working without a license!
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:38 AM   #42
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by katoman View Post
So if the guy knows what he's doing, why doesn't he go and write his exams to get his license?

I'm referring to trade license, not a business license. If you know your trade, then go get your license.

In my experience, these guys think they know their trade, but really don't. They know if they tried to pass the exams, they wouldn't make it.
Some people just don't want to deal with all the stuff that comes along with running a buisness like insurances, getting jobs, making payrol, ext. ext. To some its eaisier to go to work for someone 9-5 and have no worrries or thoughts before or after them times.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:49 PM   #43
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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no I'm saying that someone who hires somebody with the intentions of screwing them out of money because they are unlicensed and knew they were unlicensed when they hired them is way more unethical than some one that is working without a license.

No I'm not licensed in Hillsborough, I don't do much work over there and am not required to be licensed over there to do residental as long as I'm working for a licensed GC.

Yes we are very capable of doing level 5, we can do it sprayed or hand skim coated depending on the job size.
To do drywall work in Hillsborough County you muct have either a Division 1 license or a specialty contractors license, it does not matter if you are doing commercial or residential drywall.

A Licensed GC can not legally hire you as a subcontractor if you are not properly licensed, it is called aiding and abbeting an unlicensed contractor.

The only way an unlicensed person can do work for a GC is if they are an employee of the GC.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:50 PM   #44
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by drywallnflorida View Post
Here if a person is caught working unlicensed the homeowner/builder will recieve a bigger fine than that of the person that was working without a license!
Can you show me one case where a homeowner has been fined for hiring an unlicensed contractor?
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:20 PM   #45
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
To do drywall work in Hillsborough County you muct have either a Division 1 license or a specialty contractors license, it does not matter if you are doing commercial or residential drywall.

A Licensed GC can not legally hire you as a subcontractor if you are not properly licensed, it is called aiding and abbeting an unlicensed contractor.

The only way an unlicensed person can do work for a GC is if they are an employee of the GC.
Sorry but your wrong, this is copyied from Hilsborough Countys site, I also posted a link so you can go and check it out. You should take some time and familerize yourself with the rules of the diffrent areas that you work in!


Working as a Licensed Contractor
Staff Representative: Ron Collodi
Prior to receiving a license in Hillsborough County, you must take the Experior Assessments examination. If you have received a license from another county without taking an examination, you will be required to take the examination before receiving a license in Hillsborough County. Hillsborough County will honor examinations taken in other jurisdictions. In such cases, a Reciprocity Form will have to be completed and additional requirements will have to be met.
If you are working under a General, Building or Residential contractor on a single family or duplex residential structure, and the work being performed could have been performed by the General, Building or Residential contractor, you are not required to be certified as a contractor. However, you may be required to obtain a local occupational license if you live or have an office in Hillsborough County.

http://www.hillsboroughcounty.org/pg...rkcontract.cfm
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:52 PM   #46
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


Should not take any chances and get licensed
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:04 PM   #47
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by drywallnflorida View Post
Here if a person is caught working unlicensed the homeowner/builder can recieve a bigger fine than that of the person that was working without a license!
let me correct myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
Can you show me one case where a homeowner has been fined for hiring an unlicensed contractor?


CODE ENFORCEMENT FINES:
The hiring of unlicensed contractors violates Florida Building Code
requirements. This may subject the consumer to fines (minimum
$500.00) and possibility facing an administrative hearing before the
Code Enforcement Board.

This came from the following link!

http://irmpo.com/Building_Division/Licensing/Unlicensed_Contractor_Enforcement_Program.pdf


And

Homeowners who hire unlicensed contractors face several potentially costly penalties. The Department of Business and Professional Regulation can issue an order to stop construction and can levy a $5,000.00 fine for aiding and abetting unlicensed contractors

from the following link

http://www.volusia.org/contractors/unlicensed.htm

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Old 12-20-2009, 08:34 PM   #48
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by drywallnflorida View Post
Some people just don't want to deal with all the stuff that comes along with running a buisness like insurances, getting jobs, making payrol, ext. ext. To some its eaisier to go to work for someone 9-5 and have no worrries or thoughts before or after them times.
As I said, I'm talking about trade license, not business license. You need your license to drive a car, fly a plane, be a doctor, etc. etc. Why don't these people write their carpentry exams, same as plumbers, electricians, etc.

If I'm hiring, that's my first question. Shows me that person has put in the time and energy to learn all aspects of carpentry, and is serious about his trade.

He may be best at this or that aspect of the trade, but if called upon, he can likely do any aspect in 'a good workman like manner'.

I'm not saying that if you are not licensed you are a hack. I'm simply putting it out there, to all carpenters, that if you know your stuff then why havn't you written your exams ?
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:18 PM   #49
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


I don't think we have what you are refering to as " trade lic." here.
What do you consider a trade lic.?

We have a specialty trade license here but it involves showing proof of experiance, taking a test, after passing the test you have to register with the county/state, pass a credit check, backround check and carry w/c and liab. insurances.

I think most people who go thru all this do not go out and work for someone else hourly unless they are unable to get contract work from gc's or homeowners.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:31 PM   #50
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


"Bloviation warning" skip it if you have no philosophical side.

The beginningy article pointed out some situations that seem to imply unlicensed Builders have no insurance; that is false. Our State does not require a license but any business man with half a brain knows insurance is protection against the unknown and carries it if he wants to survive an accident. The two are not synonymous with good workmanship or conscientious ethics and the implication should not be suggested.

The implication that licensing prevents calamity is also false. The more complex laws and legalities become the more business that get caught up in defending laws and not what is right for the trade or the consumer. We saw that on the big Dig in Massachusetts. No crime was committed but a woman was killed by irresponsible, trained, licensed installers, manufacturers and inspectors.

This constant discussion that licensing prevents shoddy workmanship and prevents consumers from being defrauded is a simple tactic to create fear and protect a tradeís position in the economy and not to protect consumerís ability to protect themselves.

Massachusetts, during Mike Dukakisís reign as emperor, declared that Carpenters and contractors needed to be licensed and this situation would clean up the trades. It did no such thing as they grandfathered in every contractor for the next few years but did not license inspectors or clean up the bribery that was going on in some towns.

This delusion that a license transforms unscrupulous people into like minded good quality tradesman is a ruse. Licensing protects the licensed from competition. Licensing gives the state power over the trades, licensing adds government supervision or coercion if you like and steals that power from the market place where the consumer should be given more power.

Insurance is an entirely different matter. The fact that tradesmen don't get insurance or work without it is reckless and punishable by the circumstances of loss to both parties involved and that is what a court system is for. Consumers need more power or awareness that they have some avenues in the courts, and if that has become impotent to every one involved then licensing is just another financial burden added onto a failing system by government bureaucrats who have failed to protect the free market system from its own corruption.

I am unlicensed and fully insured in a State that requires no carpenter licensing and it makes for better competition and meaningful value developed by worth.....not governmental approval. I have worked in the dark side of the border and seen the false impression and political coercion created from licensing.......it is no cure of shoddiness or deceit.

When the people seek Government protection at every step of their lives and wish licensing of themselves as a means to protect what they think they can't earn or hold secure by their actions, they cease to be a free people and start down the road of enslaving each other into government controls that are no guarantee to protect but guarantee what they cost. Conformity of punishment by economic limitations before a crime is even committed is what licensing amounts to and we have accepted this upon our children for all the false cures that licensing implies against the unlicensed.

We have become sad.

No matter what this argument is about, as a builder, remodeler and carpenter I must comply to government intervention no matter how callous, because quite frankly we have no choice anymore as the tides are shifting toward mandated obedience to a master and conscience will have nothing to do with it, as people have forgotten freedoms worth and tradesman will do anything to protect their leverage against their neighbor to insure profits...it is just where we are going and it has become acceptable.


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Old 12-20-2009, 09:33 PM   #51
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by katoman View Post
As I said, I'm talking about trade license, not business license. You need your license to drive a car, fly a plane, be a doctor, etc. etc. Why don't these people write their carpentry exams, same as plumbers, electricians, etc.

If I'm hiring, that's my first question. Shows me that person has put in the time and energy to learn all aspects of carpentry, and is serious about his trade.

He may be best at this or that aspect of the trade, but if called upon, he can likely do any aspect in 'a good workman like manner'.

I'm not saying that if you are not licensed you are a hack. I'm simply putting it out there, to all carpenters, that if you know your stuff then why havn't you written your exams ?
Canada has much more consistent national standards. Here, many trade specialists do not have to be licensed and this varies considerably by state.

Just over the river, in Wisconsin, I can do electrical work without a license... and I'm a carpenter. Crazy.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:42 PM   #52
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by basswood View Post
Canada has much more consistent national standards. Here, many trade specialists do not have to be licensed and this varies considerably by state.

Just over the river, in Wisconsin, I can do electrical work without a license... and I'm a carpenter. Crazy.
But you still have to do it correctly or be held at fault...pardon the pun.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:44 PM   #53
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Re: Licensed V.s. Unlicensed ???


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Originally Posted by basswood View Post
Canada has much more consistent national standards. Here, many trade specialists do not have to be licensed and this varies considerably by state.

Just over the river, in Wisconsin, I can do electrical work without a license... and I'm a carpenter. Crazy.
This is true, here if you get your license in any province, it is recognized anywhere in the country. It is also recognized in England, Austrailia, and I believe any commonwealth country.

This is due to that our exams (for carpentry) derive from the origional British Guild Exams.

There are a total of five exams, covering everything from building layout, formwork, right through to finish trim, including making your own sash windows. Everything a Carpenter needs to know to build a home.

Thanks for the explanation that it is not consistent in the US. I wasn't aware of this.

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