Lets Help Stop The Madness - Page 2 - General Discussion - Contractor Talk

Lets Help Stop The Madness

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-22-2009, 06:00 AM   #21
Pro
 
deckman22's Avatar
 
Trade: Deck Builder
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Austin, Tx.
Posts: 4,131
Rewards Points: 1,906

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Trying to tell people what to say on a forum will only run folks off. You can not dictate what people can say.

For those who like the "lowest prices on craigslist" thread, have your fun, I don't care & don't read those anyway.
__________________
Deckman
www.alscustomdecks.com
deckman22 is online now  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 10-22-2009, 08:06 AM   #22
Registered User
 
OldInspector's Avatar
 
Trade: Inspector/Electrician
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kokomo Indiana
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


I live in a blue collar area where unskilled people made the most money. It was and is an environment where if you own a business, every dollar you make goes in your pocket. Your materiels are free, your truck and tools are free, your insurance is free, your groceries are free, etc. Every time there is a layoff, jackleg contractors appear who have never hauled anything more than a bag of potatos in their truck. I am always faced with the "How Much" question. It is the nature of the beast. When all tradesman are considered equal by the public, you just have to tough it out and rely on referal and reputation. I have flexed my pricing over the years, but understanding your mark up, overhead, etc. are key in maintaining your profit margin. Also, no debt tends to help you avoid panic pricing. Debt is stupid.

Last edited by OldInspector; 10-24-2009 at 08:30 AM.
OldInspector is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to OldInspector For This Useful Post:
abacab (10-22-2009)
Old 10-22-2009, 08:47 AM   #23
The Old Master
 
Plumber_Bill's Avatar
 
Trade: Plumbing & Heating
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 92
Rewards Points: 83

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


[quote=Gus Dering;791992]We all know how our conversations here are in a fish bowl. Anyone can be reading our posts here including our clientele.

My thoughts ... Though not on here for years, just months what I see is ... The Pseudo names. If all those joining would use the profile section as I assume it was designed. Real name (who you are), location (where you live), field (what you do) should be a preresquite to post on here. And there should be certain criteria met before you can read these posts.

But then who am I? Just the plumber...
__________________
Bill Parr L.M.P. www.parrsplumbing.com
This and That
for a job that's up to "PAR"
Plumber_Bill is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Plumber_Bill For This Useful Post:
Mike Finley (10-23-2009)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-22-2009, 09:57 AM   #24
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 11,706
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Posting actual price and cost figures
seems the most counter productive.
Anyone can and does read this stuff.
Prices will be used to beat up on some one
some day.
HO's will read a 6 year old price and think
it's good enough for their project too.
If you post your cost/price for X under
your own name, there is a pretty good chance
that your nightmare customer will be
finding that when he Googles you for
a background check.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
neolitic is offline  
Old 10-22-2009, 10:11 AM   #25
Pro
 
SelfContract's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Remodeling
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,362
Rewards Points: 500
Thumbs up

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
Posting actual price and cost figures
seems the most counter productive.
Anyone can and does read this stuff.
Prices will be used to beat up on some one
some day.
HO's will read a 6 year old price and think
it's good enough for their project too.
If you post your cost/price for X under
your own name, there is a pretty good chance
that your nightmare customer will be
finding that when he Googles you for
a background check.

Quite True & Amazing yes!!... For example, gives two offers of $105 (your first, orginial contractor) and $100 (second, COMPETING contractor AFTER learning that your 1st bid from forum),... HO will choose $100!! Why ?? ... because


1. Two contractors' bids are almost the same.. meaning they MIGHT have deliver SIMILAR QUALITY project done? ... and who is da lowball, or unlicensed hack... DIFFICULT to say by only $5 difference? ..

2. Therefore, choose $100 and HO now saves $5 buck.. small BUT ENOUGH left to buy a hamburger for his kid!?? LOL
SelfContract is offline  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:53 PM   #26
DavidC
 
DavidC's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NNY
Posts: 2,550
Rewards Points: 2,006

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


I do my part by not reading any CL threads.

Otherwise, we have had less work this year but have held our rates on what we do get. Things are starting to pick up again, at least here, and we are ready to hit the ground running.

Good times and bad, there are always people that shop by price and those that prefer the comfort of knowing their job being well done is too important to shop price. The numbers in one camp or the other probably do fluctuate with the economy, but pick a camp to market to and give it your best. Serve one camp and not the other and you will do better yourself.

People are still repairing their homes and there is always work there. Remodeling continues, the jobs are different and generally smaller right now, but there is work there. Building starts are way down over a year ago but they have been slowly rising lately.

You should know though, if your serving the price shopping camp than you can expect to work for fewer dollars. When the consumer and the competition focus only on the bottom line then quality will undoubtedly suffer because it is out of focus. Falling prices beget falling prices. There is always somebody cheaper so you will get used to suffering. The good news is you will experience consistency.

Now more than ever is the time to be good at what you do. Charge a rate that is fair to yourself and the client while running a responsible business. Only a fool would charge higher rates for its own sake. His customers would have to be fools to hire him again. You charge what it cost to operate your business so that it can do the job right. And you make certain that your service warrants the charge. People still recognize quality service.

If work is slow and everyone is haggling over pennies than this is a good time to experiment. What could go wrong worse, right? Try googling Sonny Lykos and get some ideas to play with.

Good Luck
Dave
__________________
www.CookContractingLLC.com
DavidC is offline  
Old 10-22-2009, 05:08 PM   #27
Maker of fine kindling
 
Gus Dering's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet maker
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 6,199
Rewards Points: 12,490

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
Only a fool would charge higher rates for its own sake. His customers would have to be fools to hire him again.

Good Luck
Dave
I agree with all of what you said. The quote above reminds me of this;

A mindful Sheppard can shear his sheep once a year and all is well. He can only butcher his sheep but once.
__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos
Gus Dering is offline  
Old 10-22-2009, 05:58 PM   #28
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 11,706
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Dering View Post
I agree with all of what you said. The quote above reminds me of this;

A mindful Sheppard can shear his sheep once a year and all is well. He can only butcher his sheep but once.
Grandpa said, "You can shear a sheep
every spring. You can only skin him once."
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
neolitic is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 12:19 AM   #29
Pro
 
DaVinciRemodel's Avatar
 
Trade: Design/Build Remodeler
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,581
Rewards Points: 580

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


When I joined this forum I thought hard about putting my name, my companies name, my website out there for all to view - just for the reasons Gus started this post with. I decided to put it all out there and here's my reasoning:

1. If your lowering your price (I'm not recommending this) and a potential customer reads your post - he should sign the contract now! He has just learned that he is getting a good - if not great - deal. Also consider that if the above happens - your discount (use "promotion") just got free advertising. Would your price be different if the prospect didn't read your free ad (post) here?

2. Sometimes we complain about "bad customers" here. Maybe my prospect learns what not to do here? If he's a bad customer to good (great) contractors - he's left to deal with those who can't walk away - HACKS!

3. When the thread is titled "How Much... or What would you charge..." the regulars here and/or the mods should refer them to an excellent sticky on pricing (sorry I don't know how to add the hyperlink to my post). Then regulars can ignor or the mod can lock/shut it down. The regulars also know that if they really need help (and sometimes we do) - contact someone privately a.) in your area where pricing is comparable, b.) someone that offers similar products and services. Just putting a pricing post out world-wide is of no value. If I had a pricing question I would e-mail Mike Finley! We're within 5 miles of each other - target the same population - but we've never competed against each other. It would be a great lunch! That has value and it doesn't bore everyone on the forum and it doesn't allow the customer to know whether I marked his project up 45% or 46%!

4. At one point I worried about some of the humor on this site! My days as a color changing lizard are long gone. If they read the humor - don't like it - they need to move on! I'm very proud of the "fact" that we turn down more work than work turns us down. We select H/O's - I hope they also select us because we'll work together well and we both believe the creativity, service, talent... is a fair trade for the $ they put out. Press-on with the humor - let them know who you really are!

5. I really don't like the sheep shearing analogy. It's been used often here. Think of it this way - the sheppard gets the wool - the sheep gets ? One side gets what it wants (the sheep only get lighter and cooler)! When the customer gets "outstanding" service, product, craftsmanship... We get "outstanding" payment. Both parties recieve what they want... there is no shearing or skinning going on.

Now endith the rant! Sorry - but let's be who we are! If you don't want a potential customer to know your hurting and cutting your price - don't cut your price! Make everyone complete the profile (location is most important - trade & years in the trenches next). An intro gives us an idea of what the poster needs & how we can help. Don't loose your sense of humor and realize we need each other. I think that's why/how this site got started.

Now endith the sermon. Love you guys and we need you for who and what you are! Your potential customer may appreciate it it also.
__________________
I love what I do and I'm very good at it!

Da Vinci on the web or Da Vinci On Facebook
DaVinciRemodel is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to DaVinciRemodel For This Useful Post:
AtlRemodeling (10-23-2009), Mike Finley (10-23-2009), Plumber_Bill (10-24-2009), TopFloor (10-23-2009), wizendwizard (10-23-2009)
Old 10-23-2009, 05:31 AM   #30
egotistical prick
 
Cdat's Avatar
 
Trade: Wood Inlay
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan
Posts: 2,633
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVinciRemodel View Post
When I....blah,bla, blah...3. When the thread is titled "How Much... or What would you charge..." the regulars here and/or the mods should refer them to an excellent sticky on pricing (sorry I don't know how to add the hyperlink to my post)...Blah, blah, blah... Now endith the rant!..blah, blah, blah... Sorry - Now endith the sermon. Love you guys and we need you for who and what you are! Your potential customer may appreciate it it also.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/pr...success-27899/

Highlight it, right click and select copy. Go to user CP and go to edit sinature and paste it in. Done. That'll be $65.
Cdat is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 10:26 AM   #31
Pro
 
DaVinciRemodel's Avatar
 
Trade: Design/Build Remodeler
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,581
Rewards Points: 580

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Cdat - Is that your "promotional" rate? Just put it on my tab - I'm a little short this week.
__________________
I love what I do and I'm very good at it!

Da Vinci on the web or Da Vinci On Facebook
DaVinciRemodel is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 10:33 AM   #32
Pro
 
J F's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of Atlanta
Posts: 9,058
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


shouldn't have dropped your prices
J F is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 10:44 AM   #33
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 11,706
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVinciRemodel View Post
..........
5. I really don't like the sheep shearing analogy. It's been used often here. Think of it this way - the sheppard gets the wool - the sheep gets ? One side gets what it wants (the sheep only get lighter and cooler)! When the customer gets "outstanding" service, product, craftsmanship... We get "outstanding" payment. Both parties recieve what they want... there is no shearing or skinning going on.
............
Well, traditionally the sheep got
protection from wolves.
Now-a-days, a warm place to lamb,
tail docks and dips so that they aren't
eaten alive by parasites and maggots,
and pretty much a worry free life....
until someone wants mutton and
a sheepskin coat.

But we will drop the analogy there,
since sheep are pretty nearly the
dumbest creatures still able to
perambulate.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
neolitic is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 04:51 PM   #34
Chief outhouse engineer
 
dakzaag's Avatar
 
Trade: mason
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,418
Rewards Points: 786

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
But we will drop the analogy there,
since sheep are pretty nearly the
dumbest creatures still able to
perambulate.



A definition of that needs to be included or PETA will be on us like flies on a turd.

Where is a moderator when you need one?
__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.
dakzaag is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 05:18 PM   #35
Maker of fine kindling
 
Gus Dering's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet maker
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 6,199
Rewards Points: 12,490

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
Well, traditionally the sheep got
protection from wolves.
Now-a-days, a warm place to lamb,
tail docks and dips so that they aren't
eaten alive by parasites and maggots,
and pretty much a worry free life....
until someone wants mutton and
a sheepskin coat.

But we will drop the analogy there,
since sheep are pretty nearly the
dumbest creatures still able to
C.
By the time they get sheared, they want to be sheared. Winter has passed and they seem to appreciate the hair cut. It seems to give them more bounce in their step as they perambulate along.

How could someone not see that the sheep love to be sheared? Heck they don't even put up a fight.

The point that I was making with this thread is quite simple.

The more we complain about price cutting and slow times here just may be contributing to the problem. A small amount I'm sure but I fail to see how it helps other than to vent off some steam.

Ask for what you want, you may just get it. One way or the other.
__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos
Gus Dering is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 08:22 PM   #36
Pro
 
DaVinciRemodel's Avatar
 
Trade: Design/Build Remodeler
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,581
Rewards Points: 580

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Dering View Post
The point that I was making with this thread is quite simple.

The more we complain about price cutting and slow times here just may be contributing to the problem. A small amount I'm sure but I fail to see how it helps other than to vent off some steam.

Ask for what you want, you may just get it. One way or the other.
Gus my post last night only addressed your point about clients or potential clients coming to the forum. I hope mine are - they should know who their dealing with.

To address the quote above - about what it does to us - you are absolutely right. Race car drivers who look at the wall, run into it!

Get on this site and look for inspiration. Don't allow a thread to run into the wall.
__________________
I love what I do and I'm very good at it!

Da Vinci on the web or Da Vinci On Facebook
DaVinciRemodel is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 08:44 PM   #37
DavidC
 
DavidC's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NNY
Posts: 2,550
Rewards Points: 2,006

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


I feel the real need to set the record straight on sheep shearing analogies. Neo has is right. If your client is to be the sheep than you treat them right, take good care of them and they will give up their wool to you happily and repeatedly. Take them for all they got (lamb chops) and you'll get it just once. Word will spread around the flock and they get harder to catch.

Some I know may take offense at the thought of all this sheep talk. Meet my friend Sealy;



He's apt to knock on the door to tell me the gates open. He'd be afraid someone might get in. Please don't offend him with any more of this sheep talk.

Otherwise, Gus' point is a valid one. Every time the news comes on to tell us how bad it is out there they just add fuel to the fire. We don't do anything except fan the flames with venting in public. A more private out of the search engine eye area would be better suited for it.

And the sheep won't be none the wiser.

Good Luck
Dave
__________________
www.CookContractingLLC.com
DavidC is offline  
Old 10-23-2009, 09:46 PM   #38
Pro
 
jtpro's Avatar
 
Trade: Construction Assistant Superintendant/Remodeler
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,154
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
I'm not talking about an off topic or P&R one. I mean one that is actually related to contractors.

Having sub-forums is another idea.



Actually it would suck to have a verbal rule to not discuss things like that. I don't want to always read negativity but it sure does help to know you're not the only one who struggles at times.

There is already one that you are close to un locking.

I agree with the OP but I also agree with you. Some are here to know they're not the only ones.

It would be cool for the lower posters say maybe a 100 so it's just enough to keep guests and drive by posters out but not like the hard hat area or P&R.
jtpro is offline  
Old 10-24-2009, 08:59 AM   #39
egotistical prick
 
Cdat's Avatar
 
Trade: Wood Inlay
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan
Posts: 2,633
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Lets Help Stop The Madness


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
I feel the real need to set the record straight on sheep...And the sheep won't be none the wiser.

Good Luck
Dave
Men who know too much info on sheep are men to be worried about...


Advertisement

Cdat is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Had to stop working today INTRA General Discussion 32 02-22-2011 08:35 AM
Stop Smoking rbsremodeling Off Topic (Non Trade) 101 12-29-2009 11:43 PM
How to stop church gossip. Sir Mixalot Off Topic (Non Trade) 11 06-18-2009 04:40 PM
1870's Stage stop rsss396375 Historical Restoration 11 01-13-2009 04:12 PM
Just stop them Kent Whitten Health & Safety 9 09-19-2008 07:17 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?