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Ledger Anchors For Brick??

 
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:16 PM   #21
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


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Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
10' is ceiling joist span.

Ledger will be about 14'.

I was thinking about anchoring some 2x8's vertically to help support the ledger, and then using multiple small anchors on the ledger for pull-out.

What's the advantage to those sleeve anchors vs. wedge?
I like it! a little pookie on the back of the ledger and you have the trifecta of ledger attachment. Sleeve, wedge = six of one...... small being the key word.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:24 PM   #22
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


If you are set on wedge bolts I'd be inclined to drill them into brick itself rather than the mortar. The wedges have good withdrawal but a smaller surface bearing then lag Shields which distribute pressure around the entire length of the bolt.

The ceiling is pinned between walls so pull out is not a concern. Since the brick is structural s
it's fairly easy to accomplish suspending this ceiling.

Hell you could probably dowel a length of rebar till you hit solid and just bend it up a little in The ledger and it won't go anywhere.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:47 PM   #23
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


You stated that this is an old building, what about a totally alternative ceiling idea:

Build a custom "drop ceiling" grid out of wood strips suspended with wire, and purchase new old-pattern ceiling tins that set in the grid. There is a place in Missouri that stamps new ceiling tins using the same patterns and machines that the company used over 100 years ago to do the same.

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Old 11-10-2018, 02:37 PM   #24
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


That's a good thought to USG makes a suspended drywall ceiling grid I've used it in the past works fantastic.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:47 PM   #25
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


I don't remember any of thise rated for limited attic storage, or even decking...
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Old 11-10-2018, 03:40 PM   #26
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


Yea, they want storage above.

Probably over-engineering this. It'll be attached to the walls, and while they are non-bearing partitions with drywall, probably still won't pull out.

Haven't used those sleeve anchors in years. I'll probably use those.


Thanks
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:00 PM   #27
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


Numerous stored items on a mezzanine floor/ceiling attached to non-reinforced masonry set in putty lime mortar above an occupied room...

Tell me this isn't in a seismic region.

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Old 11-10-2018, 06:50 PM   #28
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


With the Rodgers Creek Fault now a hundred years overdue for a major earthquake, which could cause the San Andreas to slip, I would plan for the worst. I know nothing about brick building engineering for earthquakes, but I do know I have seen more brick buildings retrofitted with steel reinforcements on the inside, bolted all the way through the brick. Sounds like getting with a well versed engineer that puts a stamp on drawings could save your butt in the possibility of...


Edit: I was curious and looked up this weeks earthquakes. Low and behold...Willits yesterday. Probably felt like the Skunk Train passing by though.

https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthqua...9006/executive

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Old 11-10-2018, 07:08 PM   #29
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


Caulk-ins suck for crumbly concrete, lead sheilds aren't great either. I don't think any fastner can outperform a vinylester chemical anchor in cracked or weak concrete.

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Old 11-10-2018, 08:36 PM   #30
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


This project is in Eureka.

It has an enormous Moment Frame inside.

In fact, all the buildings in this Old Town section have been retrofitted with those Moment Frames.
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Old 11-10-2018, 08:40 PM   #31
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


Here's the frame.

You can see it outlining the front of the space.

You can see the kind of brick I have to work with. Crumbly-ass stuff.

Fortunately, it's a very small partitioned room in the back, with pretty limited storage above.
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Old 11-10-2018, 08:56 PM   #32
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


We are required to have plans for any commercial work. Can you shift the burden on the designer for specifying?

I still think long lags. Your looking for a beefy fastener not to bend down with weight.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:16 PM   #33
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


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We are required to have plans for any commercial work. Can you shift the burden on the designer for specifying?

I still think long lags. Your looking for a beefy fastener not to bend down with weight.
I have plans, but because it's all interior "non-structural" work, it didn't require engineering.

I'll talk to the designer Monday.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:21 AM   #34
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


advantage is they tighten when you screw them in. disadvantae is if you even think about moving the drill around when your predrilling your holes, your sleeve wont fit. and 5/8 is a pretty big hole to start so last thing you want to do is have to drill it bigger. id put some epoxy in the holes too just for extra measure.
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:10 AM   #35
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


Quote:
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You stated that this is an old building, what about a totally alternative ceiling idea:

Build a custom "drop ceiling" grid out of wood strips suspended with wire, and purchase new old-pattern ceiling tins that set in the grid. There is a place in Missouri that stamps new ceiling tins using the same patterns and machines that the company used over 100 years ago to do the same.

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Old 11-15-2018, 10:10 AM   #36
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


https://wfnorman.com

"From its turn-of-the-century factory in Nevada, Missouri, the W. F. Norman Corporation still operates machines as old as the company itself. Production methods remain the same as the early days with sheet metal panels stamped one at a time on antique rope drop hammers, resulting in better quality control than modern hydraulic presses."

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Old 11-15-2018, 09:29 PM   #37
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


Can you thru-bolt them with threaded rod?


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Old 11-17-2018, 06:18 PM   #38
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


That was my first thought. He said it was 12" thick structural but soft mortar.

I wonder what the designer said
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:24 PM   #39
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


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Can you thru-bolt them with threaded rod?


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I could, but it's at least 12" thick walls, and I'm hoping to get away with a simpler approach.

There is a ton of through-bolted masonry in this area, due to the seismic retrofitting that was done about ten years ago.

I was looking around in there yesterday, and there's a ton of old anchors in the wall. Almost all are epoxied in. A few wedge-style.

So I've decided to go with an epoxied anchor. I'll use more small anchors, instead of a few big ones, to spread it out a little.

It's a very small partitioned room, with very limited storage above.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:38 AM   #40
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Re: Ledger Anchors For Brick??


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Originally Posted by P42003 View Post
https://wfnorman.com

"From its turn-of-the-century factory in Nevada, Missouri, the W. F. Norman Corporation still operates machines as old as the company itself. Production methods remain the same as the early days with sheet metal panels stamped one at a time on antique rope drop hammers, resulting in better quality control than modern hydraulic presses."

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That place is awesome. I see a hurt in my wallet from there. I'm glad I don't live close by.

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