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Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills

 
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Old 07-13-2014, 12:14 AM   #41
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


this topic makes me sad i dont have a father so i never learned to use my hands for crafts.

the year i went to high school they closed auto shop
i took wood shop but it was hard to learn because half the kids dint want to due anything and would not allow others to work in peace.

It was a constant fight between students and teachers.
dint learn anything there except how to use a table saw and it the perfect place to deal drugs ....... so i got out never took wood shop and it got shut down later anyway
but i wonder if they feared lawsuits .If a kid hurts himself its never the kids fault
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:31 AM   #42
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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Originally Posted by caldoconsal View Post
this topic makes me sad i dont have a father so i never learned to use my hands for crafts.

the year i went to high school they closed auto shop
i took wood shop but it was hard to learn because half the kids dint want to due anything and would not allow others to work in peace.

It was a constant fight between students and teachers.
dint learn anything there except how to use a table saw and it the perfect place to deal drugs ....... so i got out never took wood shop and it got shut down later anyway
but i wonder if they feared lawsuits .If a kid hurts himself its never the kids fault
I know a teenager who purposely cut off his own finger with a paper trimmer. If they chose to close shop due to things like that it's not helping.

I remember being in grade 4 and having my older sister telling me about the industrial arts class the school had and all the awesome things you did in it.

I was excited for when I got to high school so I could take it. And nope they got rid of it in favor of art and music classes.

One class no one wanted to take due to the teacher and the other one was there so people could get a free credit.

It was around that point that I gave up caring about school and did the bare minimum required to pass. However that being said I made sure to keep interests in other things that lead to interesting results.
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Old 07-13-2014, 02:07 AM   #43
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


I think the only way kids will get into the trades now a days is though their parents,, I'll be getting my kids into the trades, already planning on getting my youngest into architecture and my eldest will be smacking nails with me
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:43 AM   #44
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
Very few personalities fit the public school teacher mold. IMO, that's a real shame. The best teachers in private schools wouldn't fit in to a public school system.
I am about to see how that works, close up.

My wife resigned from her job in a private school this spring after teaching there for 17 years.

she is now interviewing in several local school districts...........
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:49 AM   #45
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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I am about to see how that works, close up.

My wife resigned from her job in a private school this spring after teaching there for 17 years.
I have a really good friend who ended up back in the work force, and she renewed her teaching credentials and went to work at Portsmouth Public Schools as a 5th grade teacher. (Portsmouth, Virginia.)

She didn't last six weeks. She said it was hell on earth, and that the children (and I use that term loosely) had no fear of authority and were absolutey out-of-control and had no interest in learning.

She ended up at a private school (for half the pay) and has been there for 10 years now.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:37 AM   #46
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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Originally Posted by rosethornva View Post
I have a really good friend who ended up back in the work force, and she renewed her teaching credentials and went to work at Portsmouth Public Schools as a 5th grade teacher. (Portsmouth, Virginia.)

She didn't last six weeks. She said it was hell on earth, and that the children (and I use that term loosely) had no fear of authority and were absolutey out-of-control and had no interest in learning.

She ended up at a private school (for half the pay) and has been there for 10 years now.
In the last 17 years we have seen the door open both ways countless times

A lot of public school teachers and administrators stick it out untill pension time, "retire"--- collect the public school pension----and then go to work in a private school to double dip.

also have watched many teachers start out in the private school---- teach 7-8 years----and then move into a public school system where they are quite happy. Locally---- private school are not what they once were. they are --- in actual practice pretty much just small,poor public schools.
for example--- where my wife taught for 17 years---when she started their were about 425 kids. she taught in a catholic school BTW. Overwhelmingly---- those 425 kids were the children of parishoners----and the parents were making real sacrifices/working multiple jobs etc. to pay the tuition

today however it's much different. there are less than 200 students and a LARGE number of them are not parishoners--- they are former public school kids with a "voucher"----and they bring all the public school baggage with them. Many of them have a lot of behavioral issues and various "special needs" which a small parish school is not equipped to handle.

so--- over the last few years my wife had more and more problems dumped on her, more and more responsibility, was asked to "volunteer" more and more of her time----and essentially BE a public school teacher---- for, as you say half the money.

she would STILL do it ,in a hearbeat---- however this year the catholic church changed their contract for teachers.

previously---each year she signed a one year, one page contract which boiled down to " be a good person and a good role model for the children"

the NEW contract however--- is completely out of step with how modern catholics actually live.

for instance--- what % of catholics---- have 10-12 kids??? virtually none---- but in the new contract she is not allowed to "publicly support anyone in favor of artificial birth controll"
she would not be allowed to publicly support anyone in favor of in-vitro - fertilization ( one of her co-workers actually has a test tube baby!
the new contract is extremely anti gay------ one of our best friends has a gay daughter--- one day we hope to attend her wedding. also---- one of my wifes co workers---- has been living with her partner for 20 years.....

so--- my wife read through the contract--- and then told me----" you know, i don't think jesus would sign this contract---- I am not signing it either. ( keep in mind this is an organization which has gone to the mats to support it's pedophile priests---- but attending a gay wedding is unconscionable?)

so--- here is the laugher----we know many public school teachers---- ironically--- my wife feels that today---- teaching in a public school system will better allow her to privately incorporate the teachings of christ into her dailey life--- ie: be a good person, turn the other cheek, the meek shall inherit the earth, do unto others, what so-ever you do to the least of my brothers..........

she is fully aware that she will have MANY classroom challenges in a public school.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:47 AM   #47
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


For those younger parents out there keep thinking the schools will educate your children and make them successful.

Not going to happen, your kids success starts and ends in the home.

and let's stop blaming the schools for our kids deficiencies, it's like blaming politicians. They are both bureaucratic machines totally out of touch with the needs of the people. We get what we sow, so live and deal with it.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:47 AM   #48
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


Having graduated high school last year i will tell you first hand, the trades/ shop classes are a ****ing joke. Presented kinda funny..
No i don't expect to learn complex carpentry a basic shop class.. but building popsicle stick structures and stupid garbage like that.. what the hell. Its sad, and somewhat laughable.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:35 AM   #49
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


My cousin (my age, 63) is a grade school teacher in a private school - always has been, always will be. She loves her life (notice I didn't say "work" or "job"?). Says the kids are the best behaved, thoughtful, bright and focused. She's always raising little critters and plants to bring to school (some she keeps there!), and is awesomely creative.

This is in a little town called Dexter, just outside Ann Arbor, MI. She does it for little more than half the money and perks.

As we have talked over the years, I've come to realize the secret isn't the schools admins, the equipment or facilities, or even the great teachers like my cousin.

The "secret" is the parents.

It's just that simple. The children my cousin teaches arrive at school eager and willing to learn - and remarkably well-behaved and polite.

I'm a "Boomer", so I grew up during that period where parents held high expectations - not so much for what their children became, but how they behaved.

My parents generation held every profession in high regard too - teacher, policeman, fireman, doctor - even the local grocer and mechanic.

But then, my parents generation held each other in high regard as well. They had survived the Great Depression. It turns out that no matter how well you plan how smart you are, what wealth you came from could prevent you from economically destroyed.

They survived WWII. they had learned that people of different faiths and colors and religions and even of different sexes could work together for the betterment of the common good.

And you know what "high regard" means - it means that people were treated with respect, and also with high expectation. Sometimes, those parents were too assuming, but by and large, the "high expectations" delivered exceptional results.

In my experience, the public school system of that era was outstanding. I loved every one of my teachers, and they helped me survive.

There's a very long list of what occured during the 50s and 60s that caused so much turmoil in every aspect of US of A daily life, including the public school system, but the events were real, and they did alter the social contract.

By the time I graduated in 1969, this country and the school system was in complete turmoil, and it still has never recovered.

All I'm saying is - you want a good school system - get some good parents first. The rest will sort itself out. The day "We the People" stop blaming "the government" the "School board" - all "The Others", and proactively resume responsibility for our actions and children's future - THAT is the day the school system will begin to get better.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:10 AM   #50
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


They don't cut music because learning an instrument has been proven to produce better students and more successful adults. It's probably one of the more important things a young kid can do.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:29 AM   #51
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


I think one reason they are dropping shop class, is that it is very expensive to run on an efficient level. Lets just say 25 kids in a class. Two to five are tracking well, with minimal supervision. A few are having an issue with the lab excersize that may or may not be going as planned, so the teacher is spending time with one group at a time. Meanwhile, the rest of the group is standing around doing nothing productive.

In general, I think shop classes need a 1:4 ratio to be effective as a whole (opinion)
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:37 AM   #52
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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Originally Posted by Quad Racer View Post
F talking in Spanish.
Why? I think Spanish is the single most spoken language (maybe a form of Chinese or Indian), and most other first world nations speak more than one language. Why would you not want our kids to understand Spanish or at least a second language.

If you don't want to talk Spanish, sobeit. But at least have an idea of what is being said..
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:54 AM   #53
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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Why? I think Spanish is the single most spoken language (maybe a form of Chinese or Indian), and most other first world nations speak more than one language. Why would you not want our kids to understand Spanish or at least a second language.

If you don't want to talk Spanish, sobeit. But at least have an idea of what is being said..
Its the most spoken language because dumb ass Americans learn it because its the most spoken language.....At some point we just gotta say this is our friggen country speak English or gtfo.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:02 AM   #54
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


If you want your kid to play the trombone then you pay for it, you want your kid to play football you pay for it, you want your kid to speak another language you pay for it etc..

School should encompass the basic subjects, Math, Reading, Writing, Science, and American History, and the parents should pick up the rest of the day.


Get rid of the art teachers, the trombone teachers, and even the shop teachers (sorry Frustrated Teacher) and cut the taxes so I don't have to pay for little Joey's flute lessons.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:04 AM   #55
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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If you want your kid to play the trombone then you pay for it, you want your kid to play football you pay for it, you want your kid to speak another language you pay for it etc..

School should encompass the basic subjects, Math, Reading, Writing, Science, and American History, and the parents should pick up the rest of the day.


Get rid of the art teachers, the trombone teachers, and even the shop teachers (sorry Frustrated Teacher) and cut the taxes so I don't have to pay for little Joey's flute lessons.
Of coarse that would end up producing more dummer kids who end up laying bricks for a living.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:26 AM   #56
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


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Get rid of the art teachers, the trombone teachers, and even the shop teachers (sorry Frustrated Teacher) and cut the taxes so I don't have to pay for little Joey's flute lessons.
Just sensible enough to be dangerous. You're advocating a rudimentary instead of a well-rounded education, which would lower our population's skills and understanding as a whole.

While it's understandable to resent paying for other's kids, economy of scale makes that the only practical way.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:04 AM   #57
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


It may sound harsh, but we are nearing the breaking point, the point of diminishing returns for your tax dollar. So much going out yet little results in return.

Give the money back to the parents and let them focus on what they believe is best for their child, not a bureaucratic system heavy with administrator$ who push their own agenda.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:24 AM   #58
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


I graduated grade 12 in '71. Two of the most influential people in my life at that time (and I didn't know it then) were the shop teacher and the mechanic's teacher.

Shop guy was cool, old school carpenter. Treated us with respect, no B.S. allowed and genuinely would listen to you. He gave me some good life advise.

Mechanic's guy was similar - he made you think without you knowing that you were doing it. He got in S*** with the administration a few times, counciling the students. No one disrespected those guys, and there was no trashing of the equipment.

A lot of the guys I went to school with did what there dad did- architect, surveyor, electrician etc.

Many went to the local paper mill, and worked there until they got divorced or found a better job at a mill in some other town- same thing though the trades training proved valuable to them.

Some went into the woods (logging) again if you had no mechanical ability/common sense you either got killed on the job, or were fired for being an idiot.

My son is a first year apprentice welder, he's loving it. He had to take an extra class at the trade school so he could learn imperial measure. (inches/feet) He was taught metric in school, but the real world here is still built in imperial measure.

Teaching is a real skill! I've tried to teach crown moulding to a few people, but I get that glazed eye look. I don't have the teaching skills! I'd love to do that though. I guess it's something that you can't explain in a 10 minute coffee break.

OP hats off to you for training the next generation of trades people!!
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:34 AM   #59
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


My son's high school has a building trades program. He isn't involved but it sounds pretty spiffy.
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Old 07-13-2014, 12:40 PM   #60
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Re: Kids In Schools Not Learning Shop Skills


[quote/]=

As we have talked over the years, I've come to realize the secret isn't the schools admins, the equipment or facilities, or even the great teachers like my cousin.

The "secret" is the parents.

It's just that simple. The children my cousin teaches arrive at school eager and willing to learn - and remarkably well-behaved and polite.

=[/quote]

You are correct, the parents will stick up for their kids like a mother grizzly. I have seen it over and over. I had a kid assault me and get 5 days suspension. WOW, are you kdding me????

I love the kids and have had many kids thank me and become different human beings after graduating when life kicks them in the butt, the sad part is, "THE PARENTS SHOULD BE DOING A LITTLE BUTT KICKING TOO"

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