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Joist Reinforcing Strap

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Old 05-12-2019, 03:33 PM   #1
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Joist Reinforcing Strap


Anyone hear of this http://instafooting.com/product-info-joist-repair-kit/

or this one https://www.metwood.com/product/1-re...vidual+Product

Curious as I have seen older homes with joists notched and drilled not to code.

I had heard of Metwood but not the other.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:01 PM   #2
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Just because some one makes it, does not mean it will pass inspection without stamped engineered docs or testing paperwork.

how would you hide all of those bolts on the joist bottom?

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Old 05-13-2019, 06:07 AM   #3
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


It's an engineering company so if it's calculated to support the load per code tables or better and they stamp the repair drawing it should be OK and most likely it will be approved by most jurisdictions.

If it's a basement it's ok for the bolts to be exposed... if it's a sheetrocked ceiling, the sheetrock could be cut-out over the screws and the void filled with compound and taped over.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:47 AM   #4
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


He does the math at end of the video, IMO I see it as viable fix as the bottom of the joist is under tension. That is how I see the sheetorck being done a channel for screw heads and then mud and tape over them. easier than ripping out plumbing elec etc...


Last edited by kevjob; 05-13-2019 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:48 AM   #5
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
It's an engineering company so if it's calculated to support the load per code tables or better and they stamp the repair drawing it should be OK and most likely it will be approved by most jurisdictions.

If it's a basement it's ok for the bolts to be exposed... if it's a sheetrocked ceiling, the sheetrock could be cut-out over the screws and the void filled with compound and taped over.
Website indicates no approvals, I just went through this where town wanted a wet seal or compliance approvals from a testing lab.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:05 AM   #6
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


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Website indicates no approvals, I just went through this where town wanted a wet seal or compliance approvals from a testing lab.
I would have my engineer here do his own calcs and stamp the repair. I assume they have some documentation. Metwood has ICC testing on their website.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:19 AM   #7
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


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Originally Posted by rrk View Post
Website indicates no approvals, I just went through this where town wanted a wet seal or compliance approvals from a testing lab.
The website doesn't need to have an indication of approval... Engineering firm must provide calculations and a stamped drawing detail like Kev said, and if they have a certificate from ICC or ASTM testing that's even better.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:13 AM   #8
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


You can't just order from either, which makes sense because I'd need a stamp.

The metwood one is one I had considered. I haven't seen the strap before. I'd consider it.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:13 PM   #9
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Spoke to the guy in the video today, he has stamped details available and happens to be licensed in Colorado so I could in theory use his detail for permitting.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:33 PM   #10
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
Originally Posted by kevjob View Post
Spoke to the guy in the video today, he has stamped details available and happens to be licensed in Colorado so I could in theory use his detail for permitting.
On his website, it shows he is from NY

333 Kingsley Road
Burnt Hills, NY 12027
(518) 280-3190
[email protected]
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:48 AM   #11
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


The one part of the joist strap that has me confused is the sheer volume of screws used. Many moons ago,JLC ran an article that mentioned there are times when framing members need to be increased in size,not because the lumber strength is needed but to accommodate the volume and the distance needed by code to place and space nails. The example given in JLC used a collar tie as an example. A 2 x 4 worked wood wise,a 2 x 6 was needed to accept the volume and needed spacing of nails.

So,how the heck can this be allowed with screw heads almost touching each other ?
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:53 PM   #12
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


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Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
On his website, it shows he is from NY

333 Kingsley Road
Burnt Hills, NY 12027
(518) 280-3190
[email protected]
Yes but he is licensed in several states, he mentions that in the video at beginning.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:03 PM   #13
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
Originally Posted by fjn View Post
The one part of the joist strap that has me confused is the sheer volume of screws used. Many moons ago,JLC ran an article that mentioned there are times when framing members need to be increased in size,not because the lumber strength is needed but to accommodate the volume and the distance needed by code to place and space nails. The example given in JLC used a collar tie as an example. A 2 x 4 worked wood wise,a 2 x 6 was needed to accept the volume and needed spacing of nails.

So,how the heck can this be allowed with screw heads almost touching each other ?
This is a really good point, it definitely looks like there isn't enough distance between the screws.

I found this, isn't the same situation but it's somewhat similar and it's more in line what I would think would work...
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File Type: pdf 2005-National-Design-Specification1- sheet 3.pdf (108.5 KB, 13 views)
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:04 PM   #14
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post
This is a really good point, it definitely looks like there isn't enough distance between the screws.

I found this, isn't the same situation but it's somewhat similar and it's more in line what I would think would work...



Yes,I've tried several times to pull up the JLC article pertaining to nail spacing,to no avail. For those that have Finehome Building and JLC archives,you will probably agree,both of their search engines are close to being completely useless. Several days ago,I had that very discussion with an editor of JLC,he agreed and said it is an extremely difficult (and very expensive) task to get the engines up to speed.

I get so frustrated with the one from FHB; I have even typed in the title word for word from a paper copy only for it not to pull

I could be wrong,however,I think the term for nail spacing is referred to a nail boundary,don't hold me on that though.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:23 PM   #15
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Boundary nailing is for nail spacing where there's a load transfer such as at the frieze block'g where it's transferring the roof load to the wall diaphragm.

I was looking at what I posted and it's not that similar after all but it does illustrate that there has to be enough wood around connectors in order to correctly transfer loads.

There's all sorts of rules one is supposed to follow with fasteners and wood. Years ago, before everyone figured out how important the deck ledger connection was we would use lag screws to attach the ledger to the outside of stucco walls for cheap a$$ decks.

It was a real eye opener when I was discussing this with a competent engineer. We wanted to use 1/2" lag screws into the 2x12 DF rim joist and he said, 'no can do. When you use a 1/2" lag screw it needs more than 1-1/2" thick of material to bed into. You can use 3/8" screws but with the size of the deck we were doing they had the possibility of deflecting at the stucco as there is no support there.' The 'solution' was to use 1/2" lag bolts and cut the ceiling to access behind the rim to attach.

Of course now that would never fly but it was interesting that of many engineers I'd gone over different projects with he was the only one who'd even mentioned this, just goes to show that as in everything there's good ones and not so good ones.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #16
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post
Boundary nailing is for nail spacing where there's a load transfer such as at the frieze block'g where it's transferring the roof load to the wall diaphragm.

I was looking at what I posted and it's not that similar after all but it does illustrate that there has to be enough wood around connectors in order to correctly transfer loads.

There's all sorts of rules one is supposed to follow with fasteners and wood. Years ago, before everyone figured out how important the deck ledger connection was we would use lag screws to attach the ledger to the outside of stucco walls for cheap a$$ decks.

It was a real eye opener when I was discussing this with a competent engineer. We wanted to use 1/2" lag screws into the 2x12 DF rim joist and he said, 'no can do. When you use a 1/2" lag screw it needs more than 1-1/2" thick of material to bed into. You can use 3/8" screws but with the size of the deck we were doing they had the possibility of deflecting at the stucco as there is no support there.' The 'solution' was to use 1/2" lag bolts and cut the ceiling to access behind the rim to attach.

Of course now that would never fly but it was interesting that of many engineers I'd gone over different projects with he was the only one who'd even mentioned this, just goes to show that as in everything there's good ones and not so good ones.



All good points !
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:06 PM   #17
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


It's tough to believe a licensed engineer got the minimum screw spacing wrong
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:18 PM   #18
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
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It's tough to believe a licensed engineer got the minimum screw spacing wrong



It's tough to believe every once and awhile a monkey will fall out of a tree..........'cause they are real good climbers.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:22 PM   #19
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
Originally Posted by fjn View Post
Yes,I've tried several times to pull up the JLC article pertaining to nail spacing,to no avail. For those that have Finehome Building and JLC archives,you will probably agree,both of their search engines are close to being completely useless. Several days ago,I had that very discussion with an editor of JLC,he agreed and said it is an extremely difficult (and very expensive) task to get the engines up to speed.

I get so frustrated with the one from FHB; I have even typed in the title word for word from a paper copy only for it not to pull

I could be wrong,however,I think the term for nail spacing is referred to a nail boundary,don't hold me on that though.
That was about 5 years ago and specifically about collar ties and roof rafter to ceiling joist connections. Too many nails destroys the wood fibers and weakens the wood.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:46 PM   #20
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Re: Joist Reinforcing Strap


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
It's tough to believe a licensed engineer got the minimum screw spacing wrong
It might not be but just by looking at the photo it really looks like those have a pretty big diameter (because of their head size) and there really are a lot of them.

I was thinking something similar to a stud shoe would work really well.

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