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Interior Designor Flips Out

 
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:17 PM   #21
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


I feel fortunate to live in a fairly rural community where we don't have to deal with designers & most dealings are still done with a handshake. I've got a contract at the bottom of my bid sheet, that outlines payment schedule & downpayment. I try to take the time to get to know my clients before I agree to work for them. If I feel uneasy, I get a contract signed & money down. More often than not, no paperwork is signed & I get paid at the end of the job. Heck, sometimes I even get a tip. In 15 years of being self employed, I've been stiffed for $1700 on one job. Not a bad track record if I do say so myself. Course, a $15,000 job is a big job for me & the majority of what I'm owed is labor as a rule.
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:18 PM   #22
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


Quote:
Originally Posted by freemason21 View Post
if i call on one of my friends or family in a trade to do something and they wanted to charge me what they would charge joe shmo up the street then so be it, but dont ever call me asking for help with a single thing and dont expect me to view you as someone i can count on.
No. No. No.

If you are a real friend, you recognize that your buddy has a huge investment in learning his trade, tooling up for it and dealing with the possible liabilities involved. You should be completely willing to pay his rate, because since you trust him as a good friend, you know he's not going to screw around with you.

Do NOT ask him to give away his livelihood.

It's one thing to trade/share amateur weekend warrior work. It's something else altogether to leech off a guy just because you share a few beers now and then.
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:26 PM   #23
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
No. No. No.

If you are a real friend, you recognize that your buddy has a huge investment in learning his trade, tooling up for it and dealing with the possible liabilities involved. You should be completely willing to pay his rate, because since you trust him as a good friend, you know he's not going to screw around with you.

Do NOT ask him to give away his livelihood.

It's one thing to trade/share amateur weekend warrior work. It's something else altogether to leech off a guy just because you share a few beers now and then.




Exactley. The old goat brought a tear to my eye.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:46 AM   #24
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
No. No. No.

If you are a real friend, you recognize that your buddy has a huge investment in learning his trade, tooling up for it and dealing with the possible liabilities involved. You should be completely willing to pay his rate, because since you trust him as a good friend, you know he's not going to screw around with you.

Do NOT ask him to give away his livelihood.

It's one thing to trade/share amateur weekend warrior work. It's something else altogether to leech off a guy just because you share a few beers now and then.
well again, you can word it and package it anyway you want, but it still boils down to you you're letting money dictate a friendship. what if one of your buddies was strapped for cash and one his windows got smashed up, you wouldn't help him out? what if he had some rotted out trim that needed to be replaced and hasnt gotten to it because its too expensive? just because he cant pay your rate doesnt make him any less of a friend. it goes both ways, if you work for someone for cheap or no money, then you should do so knowing that you could call on that friend for help and that person in particular isnt the type of person to help friends, then dont do it. simple as that.




but i guess it comes down to our definition of friendship is much different. first i dont drink but if i did, i wouldnt consider someone i share beers with now and then a friend. if someone you say hi to every now and then wants you to work for free or cheap, screw em. but me and my friends are much closer then someone you sit down with and watch the game with sometimes.


to each his own i guess.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:52 AM   #25
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
No. No. No.

If you are a real friend, you recognize that your buddy has a huge investment in learning his trade, tooling up for it and dealing with the possible liabilities involved. You should be completely willing to pay his rate, because since you trust him as a good friend, you know he's not going to screw around with you.

Do NOT ask him to give away his livelihood.

It's one thing to trade/share amateur weekend warrior work. It's something else altogether to leech off a guy just because you share a few beers now and then.
and i just wanted to clear up one thing. i'm not talking about having someone help me with a huge thing or massive project. it might be "hey what are you up to tonight i'm doin some painting you wanna give me a hand?" or whatever the case is. odd's and end's kind of stuff ya know? if i was to ever do something like buy a 2nd house and renovate it, my buddy could charge me whatever he wants to because it's going to take up alot of his time. i dont want you to get me wrong i dont expect anyone to drop what they're doing to help me and help me for free or for cheap. i respect my friends schedules whatever it is that they do, and if i need help with something i make sure it's always on their free time.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:46 AM   #26
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


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Originally Posted by katoman View Post
One of my crazy rules - Never let anyone get into you for more money than you are willing to loose. Contract or no contract. If the customer has expensive lawyers, you will be waiting a LONG time to get any money, even with your contract.

Learned that one the hard way.
We have judgements against these types and we hunt them down like the dogs they are! Sooner or later we will collect.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:07 AM   #27
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


I just had to...it's so appropriate:

Removed (sorry, man - language is too much)

Last edited by BuiltByMAC; 12-18-2009 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:27 PM   #28
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


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We have judgements against these types and we hunt them down like the dogs they are! Sooner or later we will collect.
Right on! I did collect, took 7 years and $19,000 in legals. Never again
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:47 PM   #29
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


Re: Friends in the trade helping out. As a rule, I will not ask a friend to come help me in his trade, other than in an advisory capacity. That is, I do not ask my mason friends to come help me lay brick, although I may ask them to come help fell a tree, or if he is an electrician I may ask him to come over and keep me from being electrocuted as I change out an outlet.

I do not mind using their labor or their mind, but I would never use both. Plus I give good BBQ and beer.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:50 PM   #30
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


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Originally Posted by Snobnd View Post
I went to her husband condo for rent to check out a small job.

3 Doors, knobs and a deadbolt setup for front door and new kitchen counters with matching backsplash - no problem so far - I get pricing for her and tell her that I need to order the counters (not in stock) Price ***.

Sent her all info by email - now I get a reply by email on Sunday Please order counters ASAP and she will have doors on site when I install the counters. (arrrrr) Economy being what it is I agree BUT I need a check to cover counter tops! Order them and I will give you a check Wed morning.
No problem - I get a call on wed morning Her Husband forgot to leave a check but she will put one in the mail in the next day or so ............. I pause on the phone and then I ask her if she would give me a custom design without a check in hand????? No but that is not the same..... I explain that this is not how I do business and I do not like being in this position, but since I have no choice, I guess so.

I get one job per year from her and she makes me feel like I owe her contractor pricing.

2 hours later she calls me (crying) and asks if I can cancel the order because she feels insulted by me asking for money ahead of time (&*%&^%$) I told her that is exactly why I need the money up front because any thing can happen and I do not want to get stuck with the materials.

Should I feel good I stuck to my principles?
OR
Was that foolish and I should have taken a chance getting stuck with counters?
Wow!

From what you describe, her position is not based on professional standards. Why would she "feel insulted" by you asking for your materials costs to be covered before you purchase a non-refundable item? That is just common business protocol.

Maybe you were a little uncertain yourself as you asked? That could have come through in your voice, that you doubted your own position. Sometimes those things influence others when they shouldn't. But you did the right and normal thing, so there's no reason to doubt yourself. Remember that confidently taking a professional stance will attract like-minded professionals to working with you.

Kathie

Last edited by LivinTheDream; 12-18-2009 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-18-2009, 10:47 PM   #31
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


Quote:
Originally Posted by freemason21 View Post
and i just wanted to clear up one thing. i'm not talking about having someone help me with a huge thing or massive project. it might be "hey what are you up to tonight i'm doin some painting you wanna give me a hand?" or whatever the case is. odd's and end's kind of stuff ya know?
Sure, that's fine. Unless in the example above, your bud happens to be a professional painter.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't trade professional services, like maybe build the guy a picnic table if he paints a room for you. That's just barter, and actually that's what friendships are, in a sense. You each have something to offer the other.

But using a friend's professional services free or cheap just because he's your friend is taking advantage of the relationship, and ultimately taking money out of his pocket. That's just not cool.

(puts Old Man hat on)

Give it a few years. You'll understand.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:27 PM   #32
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


Tin, I agree but I think there is a line between having a friend help you out and hiring a friend.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:05 AM   #33
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


In regards to friends- I have one friend who's wife racked up huge debt in his name. Before he found out about the debt and that she wasn't paying bills she was supposed to be paying he found out she was cheating on him. When he confronted her she left him. He can't give me anything except have a beer w/ me now and again (that I usually buy) and we talk about how things are and about whatever it is we have in common that makes us good friends. I buy him stuff, fix his pos Ford, and do whatever for him because he's a good friend and that's what good friend's do even though he can't give me anything except his friendship in return.

I have another friend that I just finished a bathroom remodel for. He's very grounded financially, and very blessed w/ an incredible family. Right before I gave him my quote (that was going to be quite a bit cheaper than I would've done it for Joe-shmo for) he said "Charge me whatever you normaly charge, I don't want you working for nothing". After I finished he paid me more than my quote. I tried to give it back but he insisted I take it.

Both of these guys are two of my closest friends. A good friend is there even when you don't have anything to offer. Bartering relationships aren't friendships, that's business. If you live your life worrying about weather or not you're ahead, I'm betting you're pretty miserable
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:52 AM   #34
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


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A good friend is there even when you don't have anything to offer. Bartering relationships aren't friendships, that's business. If you live your life worrying about weather or not you're ahead, I'm betting you're pretty miserable
Well said, Matt!
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Old 12-19-2009, 12:08 PM   #35
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


I've got a good friend who is an electrician. I helped him frame his shop, he helped me wire my shop.

We don't keep track of how many hours each has spent on the others' home. We are just there for each other. If I need him for something, he comes, no problem, and visa versa.

Friends don't keep time sheets, they just help their friends out when needed.
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:28 PM   #36
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Re: Interior Designor Flips Out


When someone says to order something now and they'll cut you the check later, - - just tell 'em yeah OK and then really order it when and if you get the check.

If they say they don't have the check tell 'em that's alright, that's why you never ordered it . . .

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