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Illegitimate Trades

 
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Old 10-24-2014, 12:25 AM   #41
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


Aside from the price, he's got you on the fact that he's a fireman. Customers just assume that he's going to be a straight up, honest guy. Cheaper AND a pillar of the community? Win-win in the customer's eyes.
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:17 AM   #42
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


I was wondering how his income tax would be figured out if he did have a legitimate side business, as in registered, HST #, WSIB, and liability ins etc. Would the CRA look at both his incomes when figuring out his income or do them separate?
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:22 AM   #43
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


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Originally Posted by carzie
I was wondering how his income tax would be figured out if he did have a legitimate side business, as in registered, HST #, WSIB, and liability ins etc. Would the CRA look at both his incomes when figuring out his income or do them separate?
If he doesn't keep clean accurate records...CRA estimates....and it's always in their favour
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:54 AM   #44
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


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I'm actually surprised that so many of you take a back seat to this problem, if not for the fact these scabs are stealing jobs, maybe not for all of you, but other people that that are not higher end.
I figure that if you want to go after people who "steal" jobs, become a local politician. Otherwise, the only thing we can do is be the best at our trades and hone our salesmanship skills.

As much as I hate to admit it, we ALL unknowingly contribute to this issue one way or another. For instance, the average pair of prescription glasses cost between $200-$400 from a traditional eye doctor's office and he charges $50-$100 for an exam. When you go this route, you keep people in the off-site lab employed as well as the doctor.

But nowadays there are places that you can go to get TWO pairs of glasses and an eye exam for a fraction of the price from someone who isn't even a real eye doctor. They pay some college student $8 an hour to stick all kinds of instruments in your eyes while some other teenager is in the back working the eyeglass machine. He's back there texting and laughing with is friends about what was on TV last night and he could care less if he gives you the right lenses or the correct adjustment.

So while us as contractors want the best deals, sometimes we don't know or consider who else it hurts in the process. Many homeowners who hire unlicensed hacks look at it the same way. Not that it's right but generally the MO of most people is to spend as little as possible if they don't see the difference between Product Provider "A" vs. Product Provider "B" if the result is the same product.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:17 AM   #45
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


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But nowadays there are places that you can go to get TWO pairs of glasses and an eye exam for a fraction of the price from someone who isn't even a real eye doctor.
The other side of that is that in many if not most cases, there's no need for a fully overqualified rocket surgeon. We are strangling ourselves with regulations put in place because something could happen, with little consideration given to how likely that actually is.

It's not surprising when both buyers and sellers get fed up with the circus and go with practicality instead.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:26 AM   #46
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The other side of that is that in many if not most cases, there's no need for a fully overqualified rocket surgeon.
Exactly. And many homeowners see us as being self proclaimed rocket surgeons when Sammy Slim on the corner can do the same thing for the price of a bottle of liquor.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:26 AM   #47
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


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..a story about eyeglasses..
I don't buy my glasses from a guy in a pickup truck, for cash, from a guy who promises a better deal if I don't tell anyone about it.
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:56 AM   #48
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


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It all adds up - licensing and regulations, property tax increases, the lack of any enforcement mechanism against illegal contractors. I certainly believe that licensing and other regulations put me at a significant price disadvantage.
That's because the system is rigged.

The US Chamber of Commerce wants cheap labor. The US Govt allows illegals to come across our borders violating our laws.

The illegals from Eastern Europe & South of Border are hired by many companies, large & small, violating many laws.

The majority of the illegal money that the illegals made are then sent out of the country. It's called money laundering, wire/mail fraud, etc.,

Local, state & Federal govt encourages this type of lawlessness while at the same time telling the rest of us to "obey all the laws".
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:32 AM   #49
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


For a number of years I worked full time as a carpenter and had a part time job cleaning carpets at night. Since when is it wrong to have two different jobs? The fact that one is a fireman does not preclude him from having another occupation. Is the poster precluded from following another occupation to earn extra money? Ambition should be admired, not frowned upon.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:05 PM   #50
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


I have no problem with someone having two jobs, I would do it if I had enough time which I don't. Competition doesn't bother me as long as we're all on the same playing field, register, insurance, collect the tax and pay the tax. The one's that don't play by the rules are where my issues are
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:49 PM   #51
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


Yeah I think we should all have someone else paying for our insurance & retirement so we can just be tradesman for extra cash.

Earlier today a friend & long time co worker ask me to borrow a tool. For him no problem I love the guy . But here's the rub. He went to the union a few years back he's been laid off until last month. He would go on craigslist everyday for work. His complaint was now that he's back in the union he's hurting so he needs the side work. He was making $15-1600 a week now he only makes about a grand but the benefits are good. So I say yeah I know I charge $60/ hr & $20 of that goes to my benefits /overhead. Then he goes on about all this work he has if things are slowing down and I want "a piece" this guy & that guy has full house remodels, a couple baths, a basement ect...
So you can see how growing business expenses & a growing crowd of "supplement earners" are making things difficult for the tradesman.

Drywall repair, hang a door, trim, paint a room is one thing it's beyond that.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:06 PM   #52
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His complaint was now that he's back in the union he's hurting so he needs the side work.
That kind of stuff where union tradesmen doing side jobs on weekends or when they are out of work is nothing new, been going on for many decades.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:13 PM   #53
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


Of course it's nothing new, but add illegal foreigners, poorer middle class and the Internet to find cheaper alternatives & that's what makes it harder than ever for true independents to follow the law.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:34 PM   #54
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


Edited because I am an idiot and used too many blanket statements.

Last edited by Andrew6127; 10-24-2014 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:44 PM   #55
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Stop complaining about "side jobbers". You knew getting into being a contractor that it was common practice for scrubs to underbid, do shotty work, work with no insurance, and in general do stupid things to make other contractors look like A holes.
A lot of people doing "side jobs" aren't scrubs, nor are they doing crappy work.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:18 PM   #56
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


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A lot of people doing "side jobs" aren't scrubs, nor are they doing crappy work.
This is true, my mistake for generalizing. I still do not like the cash thing though.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:18 PM   #57
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


Capitalism isnt pretty

someones willing to do the job cheaper and the homeowner doesnt care about quality who's willing to hire him....

whether its right or wrong doesnt matter.....the market is speaking.....

if you dont want to compete with side jobbers stop fighting to be the low bid

i cant remember the last time i competed against a side jobber...maybe 7-8 years

why? because im higher end and live off my reputation....i have the job most of the time before i even bid....as long as my price is in line ive won it....

most of my jobs are 1 bid...mine....(maybe all my jobs)

every time i compete i lose...i rarely win a job with multiple bids...i use better materials and that puts me hundreds above most other plumbers....

its all about marketing

i could care less if 50% of the jobs out there are side jobs

i dont think id lose 1 customer

some people want cheap and some are willing to pay extra for quality....my customers are willing to pay extra

ive never known a tradesman that didnt do side jobs at some point...were all guilty

get this economy improving and side jobs will go down
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:21 PM   #58
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Re: Illegitimate Trades


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A lot of people doing "side jobs" aren't scrubs, nor are they doing crappy work.
i think most side jobbers do below average work

in my trade they dont have access to plumber grade products...they are buying their valves/parts from home depot..

Last edited by huggytree; 10-24-2014 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:24 PM   #59
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This is true, my mistake for generalizing. I still do not like the cash thing though.
Just because someone accepts cash for payment or offers discounts for paying by cash does NOT automatically mean that they are not paying taxes.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:26 PM   #60
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Just because someone accepts cash for payment or offers discounts for paying by cash does NOT automatically mean that they are not paying taxes.
every subcontractor business owner i know takes thousands if not tens of thousands under the table in the form of cash....

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